S1 Ep8: Coffee Room Chat: Our Take on Homicide's Peacock Revival

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello everybody and welcome to Homicide Life On The Set. We are in our virtual coffee room about to chew the fat about the streaming. So Homicide is now available on Peacock, which is amazing. It's still not available outside of the US but you Americans are very lucky to see it. I've been lucky to see it because I've got a few connections. And it's yeah, I'm really pleased with it. But Susan, any what are your sort of initial thoughts on the streaming?

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the first thought was, yay. Yeah, and I was gonna buy a bottle of champagne for this morning. But I figured since we're recording at 730, I wouldn't be able to make the best use of it. Let me down a bottle of champagne then go on my date. No. So first of all, it was just I really feel like it's far too it's been far too long, but finally getting its respect like it is actually out there and available. I did not know it wasn't available in your

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Europe or in the UK. You know, you think you get on the internet, you can go anywhere. So I didn't know that. Yeah, so that's well that that's boo hiss. So we need to have it available. Yeah. Around the world. Yeah, eventually, I'm sure it will catch up. I have my suspicions of where it will air because most Peacock shows end up on now TV in the UK. So my theory is also could be completely wrong, but I have a theory it will be on now TV, which will match up with all the fun of other HBO content and Peacock.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Stuff so it will kind of be next to the wire, which yeah, so it will I don't know when they're planning to screen it in Europe. But yeah, but I've luckily through the power of a VPN and some personal connections in the States, I got access to Peacock and managed to watch. Watch most of season one you're ahead of me. I think you're on season three now.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on. Yes, yeah, I just finished. I wanted to watch the three part murders. Yeah. Yeah, excellent. And I just finished those. And then because you love the Croissette episode, I watched the teaser, the opener for the Croissette episode. So well, I watched Croissette this morning.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, did you? Yeah, I was watching it this morning. It really moved me actually. Yeah, yeah, I thought I just wanted to see a season three episode just to see because obviously there's two different cinematographers. You had Wayne Ewing. Wayne was season one and John came in on the short season two.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then season three onwards and and just wants to see the difference between the look. And no, the streaming looks amazing is the best homicides ever looked in my opinion. My main observation and I had a question actually. So it is it appears to be 16 nine and it's not four by three because I compared it this morning.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've sent you this very crude photo I took a season three. Yeah, I looked at it. It sort of blew me away. I'm like, wait a minute. Yes, I'm assuming you guys shot open games. So the one that shows more the diner is 16. Yeah, yeah, that's the that's the peacock version. And then the so I have a feeling I know what your question is going to be.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll not be able to answer it.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Weirdly, five years ago, I bought season three of homicide on Apple. It was the only season available. So technically you could stream homicide season three. And five years ago, almost actually to the point because I was I was streaming it on a train. So I was watching it on a train ride every morning to this job I was doing out of London.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like a two hour commute each way. So I ended up watching like two episodes of homicide over the commute. And so I this morning, I was to watch Chris Eddie, which I've been watching my laptop and I kind of put it on eyes on my main computer, I put up the Apple version.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And then below my laptop, I put up the peacock version. And just to see because I wanted because I noticed when I was watching on Peacock, it does appear to be 69. Usually when they do 69 on a four by three show, they kind of crop in so I was a bit concerned.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And to my pleasant surprise, it's the opposite. They've kind of come out so it looks like it looks to me like you guys shot what we call open gates. So in post you can fiddle around with because the 69 version looks amazing. You see so much more detail in the shot.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So in the photo I sent you is a scene where Baylis and Pemblton are in the the cookie shop buying the cookies for the funeral. And above Tim, you can see the sign for the cookie shop we can see a collection of what looks like croissants to his right.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You got a bit more detail and Pemblton and you can see behind Pemblton's back a few things.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was just like, wow, this really is great. It's a lot wider. And then the other thing I've noticed, it's more colorful so the color really pop out. It's obviously a lot sharper.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And it there's a less of a desaturated look because the Apple version, which looks like it's just pulled straight from the DVD or the probably the Digi beta that they use to make the DVD looks very desaturated and also has a weird blue cast.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So the other thing I've noticed, it looks warmer on Peacock than it does when you watch it on the DVD or the Apple version. I have is a slight blue cast on the original version that's now missing.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And it does slightly look a bit more like law and order. Funnily enough, not in a bad way, but just ever so slightly.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And weirdly, when I first watched the pilot episode, I thought, my God, this is like watching a movie. It looks so much more cinematic and I was really, really pleased.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think visually and even from the sound levels as well, everything sounds really good because the other thing with the DVD, the audio is occasionally a bit muffled.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And in particular, for some reason, it was Yafet's dialogue never quite came through as well as it could have done.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And whilst on the Peacock version, he sounds crystal clear and it's great.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do know there have been some complaints about the music. And funnily enough, I've had a weird revelation.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I think in Europe we might have had a whole different set of music for Homicide that I'd never noticed as different as the American one because I had this with Miami Vice.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: In Miami Vice quite a few of the music cues are very different.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Really?

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm wondering whether the version that you're all seeing for the first time is kind of like the same music that we had on the European DVD release, because I've got the European DVD, not the American one.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously my memories of Homicide go back to the 90s and my musical knowledge is not that fantastic.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's one or two songs that really do stand out from Homicide.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know the music as in depth as you guys.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But when I was watching Chrisetti this morning, I had both the app.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I synced it up so I could watch the Apple one and the Peacock one side by side.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The music was no different on the versions that I had.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm wondering whether this is like the international release because obviously there's been a lot of complaints about the music because not all of the songs are intact from the original, which is a shame.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, those are my kind of initial ramblings about the Peacock release.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it looks fantastic.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So your question about did we shoot open gate?

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, my recollection is that it was made clear we specially were shooting in Super 16, which means a little bit larger negative.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You push the frame out very close to the sprocket holes so that you get a larger negative.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: These are all questions for NBCUniversal or maybe I should go back to Jaune, although Jaune might not remember either.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was shocked when because I haven't had a chance to do a side by side yet.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I need to do the DVD version in the TV room and the Peacock version in my bedroom and take pictures or run back and forth.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So as far so that was shocking to see the side by side you just showed that that in and the cookie, the cookie scene was in Vaccaro's downtown Italian bakery.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So to see because I thought the same thing was going to happen.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought what was going to happen was because they were making it from 43 to 69 that that they would have to chop top and bottom in the original to make it a widescreen, which is sort of the opposite.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: My brother and I were talking about this the other sort of opposite of what happened with movies when movies went to television.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They pan and scanned, which is where so you have a widescreen.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to television size, which is difficult to do because so many movies in the 50s and 60s and everything onward was widescreen.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And then trying at the time to put it on a box as almost a square frame in your television.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So so I guess what this is.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a theory.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess what's happening is that originally we shot in Super 16, which was more of the square television version.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But that in fact there was much more negative hanging out there and they didn't have to go back to the original negative to get it because it was on the digital transfer.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. So they went back to the digital transfer and were able to grab the larger the larger aspect ratio.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I have no idea if that's the case.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I need to talk to somebody about that.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I don't think I don't think I could have reconstructed the rest of that Vicarro scene.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Not yet. Maybe in the future.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But it would have cost trillions of dollars, which they're not they're not going to do.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's so obviously the negative was there.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we shot open gate because, you know, I remember, you know, we we changed, you know, when we changed film, there's the gate that we're squirting the air into, you know, to make sure there's no there's no hairs or there's no scrapings in the gate.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I don't have an answer for that and I'm embarrassed that I don't.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just I was just worried it was going to be the other way.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it happened with the wire, I believe, didn't it?

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I think later seasons they try to make it 16 nine and they cropped in.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they've reversed that now.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. I have to check.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you watch when you watch now old episodes of shows like when you watch the Carol Burnett show, which is really old school television, often the wide shots, you don't see as much on the close ups.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't notice it as much because if you give somebody a haircut down to their eyebrows in a close up, it still looks right.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. But if you're in a wide shot and they're cropping it and they're cropping the tops of people's heads off, you notice it.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So I noticed it in old school television transfers where they've had to crop to, you know, to make it wide screen so that there's not a bunch of black areas or gray areas, which is what my DVDs have.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: If I go to that aspect ratio on the sides.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, obviously the negative was there for them to grab it.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was thinking I didn't do a side by side like you did.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But as I was watching it, I was conscious of watching to see if I thought it looked cropped and I never did.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So and you just provided the answer this morning.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: There was enough negative there, at least most of enough negative there not to have to to crop or or to upset the balance of.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The original framing. Right. Yeah.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But also I thought was really interesting.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say to viewers that are new to homicide, watch what keep going after you watch the first season.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep going. Or if you watched part of the first season, you're like, oh, it's kind of drab.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of this. It's kind of that. I mean, I think there was an effort early on to make it desaturated.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't on the first season, but to make it desaturated, to make it very, you know, use the verisimilitude, make it very lifelike and not too much artificial additional lighting.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you get to season two and especially season three, I noticed even more it is more colorful.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: The lighting is different.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It may have also been the idea that it was going to be super run and gun in that first season

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and that there was more time taken with lighting on the second season.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Or it just was the different style, like I'm going to make this look like a room that I walk into.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The squad room is going to look like a drab squad squad room I would walk into in real life.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then then it becomes I noticed, especially in season three in the evening in the evening shots.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, even in the days in the daytime shots, there was a lot more light pumping through the windows in the coffee room area that was spilling into the squad room.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So you would see these this, you know, swaths of light coming into the squad room from the lamps outside that are really pushing that daylight through into the squad room.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And then in addition, I think we talked about this earlier, a little more drop off in the background.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So the actors are lit, the backgrounds lit less, but then also splashes of light like spill, not fill light, but sort of spill light across different parts of the squad room across the the

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And also, and I don't know if you noticed this, the aquarium is lit so that it actually looks like an aquarium.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: By the time you get to season three, it has a sort of a funky teal bluish cast to it that makes it stand out.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, it made sense originally. It was called the aquarium because it's glass enclosure.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where the people waiting to talk to the detective sit or waiting in between being interrogated.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But once you get to season three, it's it actually feels like you're looking at an aquarium because of the color.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot more colorful light splashing here and there and and highlighting things.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would tell people to keep going because obviously the first season, absolutely beautiful.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The writing from the get go, the writing and acting from the get go is absolutely wonderful.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it struck me even though we've you know, we've been rewatching this for these for the podcast and rewatched the whole the whole seven seasons before we started.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It struck me even more this time as I was watching it that not only was the casting incredible of who they got for which characters,

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: but then who they put together, the chemistry between each of the partnerships is so good.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously some of it is, you know, opposites attract.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It makes it more interesting when you have two opposite people working with each other, which is the case, you know, with Melissa Leo and Danny Baldwin.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Their characters are very different and and Belzer and Ned Beatty, very different.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Kyle and Andre Clark and Chris Eddie and sorry, John Polito, all very opposites, which makes for this like constant sparks.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Even when they're not disagreeing about something, there's just the constant spark.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So kudos to obviously everyone across the board, including Gayle Mutrix who found the book to show to Barry and Barry recognized great, you know, would make a great series, not necessarily movie all the way, you know, all the way down.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So in answer to your question, also, I think that it looks more cinematic in season from season two on.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: At some points, it's so the digital the new digitally restored transfer, blah, blah, whatever they did to it is so clear.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The grain is complete. I haven't seen the first season and some of the dark areas you can still see the 16 millimeter grain.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Later on, it is so clear. It looks like live video.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It almost looks in parts like a lot like a soap opera, which is basically live video.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So the clarity of it at points, it's beautiful, but also is like, wait a minute, where'd the gritty go?

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they almost de-grittied it a little bit.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It is very pretty.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, the grain is slightly missing now.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't funnily enough, there's a really good film called The Holdovers that came out early this year.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've seen it.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It was shot digitally, but they added all the 35 millimeter grain in post and it looked amazing.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It looked like it was shot in the sort of 70s when it's set.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it does.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that was absolutely, like you said, purposefully made to look like a 1970s movie,

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: even in addition to the credits at the beginning where he puts the date 1974 at the bottom, like copyright 1974.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did a really good job.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they missed the pass with the grain a little bit.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they have taken too much of the grain out now because it does look more,

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: a bit more like Law and Order than in, and I don't mean that as a criticism.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It still looks amazing.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it looks great.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It does look a little bit crisper and a bit more like a regular cop show in that regard.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no real mega grain, which I remember from when I watched, I mean, looking at the side by side images,

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's amazing how grainy and desaturated it looked and how used to it I was.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, wow, this is so different.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's quite crazy.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah, and the question is, was that conscious on a visual level,

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: like we're going to make this look the best we can or is it also conscious on what does a 2024 audience expect to see?

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, is the 2024 audience going to like 16 millimeter grainy, even though it wasn't super grainy before,

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, it was part of the presence of what the film, the show looked like.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So was there a conscious decision just to make it look better and it's not even restoring it,

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: it's bumping it up, you know, a bunch of different levels of resolution and clarity,

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: which is kind of amazing, just I think technically and, you know, what computers can do.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Or was it also a conscious decision to make it look more like a 2024 cop show

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: so that it would fit more seamlessly into people's view?

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, I don't know.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Makes you wonder.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe whoever from NBC Universal was checking out my LinkedIn page.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I should find out who that was and ask them.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We need to know the inside scoop on that.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: There's one other thing in the Chrisetti episode.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So on the Facebook groups, there was a complaint about the Chrisetti episode,

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: apart from the music, where when Pemblton is dressed in the full service uniform,

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it is blues and I can't think of what the expression is for that now.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: He does a sort of salute and when the reveal of him, that's it, dress blues.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The reveal of him is this sort of post-production slow motion.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not proper slow motion.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of this weird post-production slow motion that worked well in the original version.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you watch the new version, they've removed it and it's just at the normal speed.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I could I think I know why that happened because when you're doing the digital transfer, etc.,

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that that's a video effect that was put on.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So they've probably come away from the original.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the ins and outs of this, but they've come away from the original edits.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they haven't used that effect.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And because if they pulled the if they just did a like a scan of the original edit

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and just use the computer to kind of up the resolution, obviously it would have held up,

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: but it would have made the image look a bit fuzzy.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So to get clarity, they've obviously gone back to some original either negatives or files or something.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And that effects no longer there.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm assuming nobody has brought in each director to kind of relook at the thing.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So somebody somewhere missed that effect.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. Does it make a huge difference?

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of weirdly I was conscious of it because obviously somebody mentioned it.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought I could look out for this.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't I don't know how I feel about that effect going because the effect did look a bit naff.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, emotionally it worked.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so there are little touches like that that have been adjusted as well.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: It's really interesting.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So that's interesting because I think it goes to the it goes to the question, you know,

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and maybe the person who another person told me before it was announced that that they were working on the transfer for the streaming.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I can get in touch with that person who might have some insider knowledge on.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that begs the question of how deep did they go?

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: How many layers back did they go to which which level of original to then reprocess it forward from there?

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't gotten only watched the first 10 minutes of Chris Eddie this morning, so I didn't get to that to that last shot.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And I only knew of that because of the it was mentioned on a Facebook group, which is the waterfront.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously, I went looking for it and I had my nerdy side by side comparison.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But it was I noticed it.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And I wonder if I had watched it without thinking about it, if I would have if it if it would have stuck out to me that it was different.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Because what happened with that original with that original later slow mo, the slow mo put in later, it it adds it adds a bit of point.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. It adds a period to the sentence there.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it it it it brings more poignance to the scene because of that because of that effect and that slowing down on on Andre.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So so interesting if I would have absolutely remember what it looked like before.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I absolutely remember that.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But if I would have noticed the difference in watching it again, that's a good question.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And then as to the music, that's also that's also interesting.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to jump up in a couple spots where I wasn't thinking to myself, I'm going to listen to the music and see if it sounds different.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't really thinking that.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And there were and I don't I know I remember what episode it happened in again.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But the first time it happened, I don't remember what episode it was.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It was in the first season, I think.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it was a street scene.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember thinking that is some kind of disco library music and not whatever original track was in there.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't jump up to compare it to the DVD.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it struck me.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And whether this was whether I was correct or not about this, because I also didn't go do a side by side was a couple places in Bop Gun.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: The opening scene with the kids playing basketball right before Robin Williams wife gets shot.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_02]: That music didn't feel as edgy as I remember.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I think they play seal in the version I've seen.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I need to read what I haven't watched the Peacock version yet.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But the version I remember it has seal.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the tune?

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember the tune.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But do you know, do you remember what song is supposed to be?

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I just remember it being an edgier feel.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I just remembered being and I may be wrong, but that felt off.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And there was another it seems to me another scene in Bop Gun that I thought this because the music was always so unique.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a couple of spots that it didn't sound like unique music to me.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I may be wrong.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It may be the same music.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But then I went ahead.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I jumped ahead out of curiosity to a full moon because full moon starts with some really good music and it escapes.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I know in my brain who it was, but I think that opening to full moon is the original music.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So then I wondered if I was wrong when I went back.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it might be there were just some songs on some episodes that just cost way too much money because music clearance is serious, expensive and quite complicated.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I once worked on a documentary where we had to do a lot of clearance.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just like there's not just one singular clearance of music because he's got the composer's rights, the musicians rights and there's there's like three or four different rights you have to clear and pay for.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And it can get horrendously expensive.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And with a TV broadcast, most well in the UK, for example, the BBC, they pay a certain amount, a flat fee to be able to use any music they want in something.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But then that has a problem later on with DVD or VHS releases because those rights might not transfer over to a home release.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, this is what David explains was a while back was that obviously the music rights they hadn't considered streaming and they I think they had anticipated DVDs, but they hadn't anticipated like new future formats, which then obviously drives the bill up even more.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess somebody somewhere at Universal, maybe they're testing the waters.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: There might be a re-release again later on where they might put the music back in. Who knows? I don't know.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very difficult one, but it sounds like a corporate decision a little bit.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I didn't know that it would necessarily be different outside of the US.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting to me that what you said earlier that the music obviously they didn't have the rights for international only for domestic.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe. Yeah.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is it? And so like Crissetti to me all the music sound exactly and it was exactly the same as the version I've previously owned.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I remember years ago watching. I'm a bit of a Miami Vice fan too.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a particular episode, Calderon's Return that's at the end of Calderon's Return or the beginning of part two.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a really cool montage and the American version has this completely different song to the one I remember.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So the one I remember is Red Rider. What was the song called?

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember the name of the song, but it's by a group called Red Rider and it's appropriate to the scene.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: It works and I always remember it that way.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I bought the DVDs because they re-released the DVDs a few years back, the music was totally different.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And the version I got was the DVD release over here for my advice was the American version.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So they cleared it, but it was totally different to the recording I had from the television.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, my God is totally different to how I remember this.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's quite funny how music rights can change.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And also like with Miami Vice, music was such an integral part of the show.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And also I guess they thought about the regions it was being broadcast in and maybe even adjusted the music for Miami Vice to the region to help sales of music in that region.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. It's beyond me that.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But there's all sorts of weird complicated things that happen with music and then showing things internationally.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So it might be.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wonder if the homicide we're seeing now might be some sort of more international version where some of the music was changed in the past and nobody has kind of noticed.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I got to to Crissetti, I did feel like that music, you know, in the open where they're pulling him out of the bay was the original that I remember.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: That one didn't strike me as different.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think maybe the full moon, the Reverend Horton Heat was in full moon.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that might have been him in the opening, the opening music anyway.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But there is apparently a Reddit group where somebody has written down all the variations.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So if this bit is, if the music is important to you, which I understand it is, there are some Reddit threads about it.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And certainly the waterfront Facebook groups, the one I'm a member of, they've linked to that and mentioned it.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's so yeah.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, yeah.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's far from perfect.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_00]: The digital release, you know, but I'm so but all that aside, I'm so glad it is available on the streaming.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It makes it a lot easier to watch the show because even with our rewatches we've had to for convenience.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had to resort to watching episodes on YouTube from time to time because it's not always been convenient to get my box set out because I share a TV of my wife and my wife doesn't isn't as enthusiastic about homicide as I am.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Even though she loves Brooklyn Nine-Nine and Andre Brahe and Raymond Holt.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, but unfortunately that angle didn't quite sell it.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, for the interest of my marriage, I've had to resort to using YouTube from time to time.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: But now we've got it on Peacock.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, thank goodness.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's interesting.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: In the original broadcast on NBC when it was live on Friday night or Thursday night or whatever, I can't even remember what night it was on.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: The credits went by so fast and they were tiny at the bottom.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, when the digital, I mean, when the DVD came out and it had those really nice big credits in Courier, that little sort of typewriter style, they still go by kind of fast but not as fast as they used to go by and tiny when they were broadcast.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, it was nice to see that they retained the credits from whatever the DVD version was.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would encourage people, and I know Peacock won't like this, but turn off your autoplay at least once and watch, slow up and watch the credits because the people that created this show from sort of a different crew, first season, the rest of the whole thing.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it changed often, like we said, that we had like a seven or eight different boom operators.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we had a lot of different people on the show.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, take a minute to look at the credits and give props, give a little hand clap for the crew because their names are easy to read and easy to see in this version more so than they were originally broadcast, which is fun.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, on the whole, I think it looks great. And there was a comment on Facebook from Jean about how great it... he was happy with it about how great it looked. So that was cool to hear from him.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Credit to everybody involved in this show. It stands up. It just really... watching it on Peacock, it almost looks like a new show, but it stands up and it stands up to the test of time.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, congratulations on everybody involved with Homicide that it actually doesn't date horrifically. It doesn't date as badly as Miami Vice.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I so love Miami Vice.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it barely dates every once in a while.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope everybody remembers Montell Williams, although he was in the news yesterday for some reason. I don't know if it was around the DNC, around the convention.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Wow. I'll wow my wife up with that. I'm not Montell Williams. I'm not Montell Williams. Who's Montell Williams? I'm not Montell Williams. It's great.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So there are some references that people of a certain age, people from Baltimore will get. One thing I did want to say that... and I don't know if it's because the transfer, like you said, maybe even shows more and is clearer that when we were shooting it and when I was watching it originally, you know, I'm from here.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So when there's a shot of the pagoda in Patterson Park or when there's a shot of the administration building at the Baltimore Zoo, which is this beautiful old wooden, you know, wooden probably, you know, 100 year old building.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Or if, you know, if there's a shot of some other iconic site in Baltimore, it's just it's Baltimore to me. I don't really notice it.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But I really noticed it for some reason watching it this time. And it might have been because having just come off the Olympics where they made an effort to use the iconic locations in Paris to show off the city.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm watching and I'm like, wow. And obviously they did it on purpose. You know, they did it on purpose when they wrote the show to show off the iconic places in Baltimore.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's even a shot with Yafit and Michael Constantine, who is the retiring shift lieutenant on the second shift or the other shift.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're sitting in front of his row house in Little Italy. And there's this beautiful shot down the street of Little Italy, or as we say here, Little Italy.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a number of places there, the zoo, Patterson Park, Little Italy is one. Even this morning I noticed, oh, when Isabella and Danny are at the train station, which is now a museum, the B&O original roundhouse in Baltimore.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: This is an amazing, beautiful structure that's been restored. And it starts where you can see the roundhouse, the roof of the roundhouse in this beautiful building in the background with the train yard in the foreground.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And it struck me this morning and there's another iconic Baltimore building location that really is beautifully highlighted.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe it looks better now, and that's why it stood out to me or just I don't know my consciousness changed about it. But that also struck me.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was on the phone yesterday, I guess it was yesterday with Leslie Streeter from the Baltimore Banner who lived outside of Baltimore for a long time and talked about how nostalgic it was.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But she said as she's rewatching it, she's just is like falling in love with Baltimore all over again.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think people who haven't seen the show before will get a really nice, a really nice feel for it.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And then one of the NPR, Eric Deggans did a piece on the show coming out on streaming and he made a comment.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like shot mostly in Baltimore. I wanted to call him and say, okay, I guess you could argue. Yeah, I guess you could argue because of the crossover episodes.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I just also want to ask about that. But, you know, it was shot in Baltimore. It wasn't partially shot and the stages were somewhere else.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It was shot all seven seasons and the movie all was shot here. So I wanted to make that clear.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I read something or saw something that said the streaming of homicide on Peacock doesn't include the Law & Order crossovers.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't look forward and look in to make sure that the homicide, I would assume the homicide side is there.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine they are. I guess you would have to just then hunt because Law & Order is available on streaming.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: In the UK, I think it's on it's partly on Amazon, partly on Netflix.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So I need to try and find those. That should be interesting to know.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But I suspect because on my DVDs, certainly I've got the homicide side of the Law & Order stories.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. Yeah. So I would imagine and I could be wrong here, but I would imagine they are on here.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be silly not to because they're part of the homicide story.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, and the continuing story arcs. Yeah.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, so that would and if there is any, you know, I guess there wouldn't be a notation.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Would there be? You know, I did I did actually scan forward and look through all the blurbs about, you know, about each episode.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't remember any of them saying crossover with the New York Detectives or, you know, maybe maybe they did.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the blurb said that. I don't know.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's something I didn't look for. I haven't gone quite forward enough yet for that.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: But but on the whole, great, great to see it so available and and it looks great.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And like you said with it with the transfer, it doesn't look like it's been chopped as far as the aspect ratio.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, because it yeah, because I was scared.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very scared that that might happen. And thank God it didn't.

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, well done because, yeah, I've always had a whole other set of complaints about that.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But but there we go. Well, I'm going to have to wrap up in a moment.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But do you have any final thoughts or? No, just like I said, I hope that I did see a comment online from somebody somewhere.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it was for the Peacock version.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just the earlier versions or people looking at it on YouTube.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that, you know, I looked at this and I don't really understand why everybody thinks it's so great.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I really love, you know, Chicago, whatever, PD better in those kind of shows.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think we have different sensibilities now.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: People have different sensibilities the way television looks.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would say to anybody, any new watchers, any new audience for the show, listen to it.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep going. You know, go past the first season because that's only nine episodes.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep going. You know, and I guess at a certain point, if by season three, you're not just totally sucked into how good the writing and acting and how the whole thing was put together.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, whatever. You know, you don't like it.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But I just hope that people give it, people sit with it and give it a chance and let it sink in because it is absolutely, it is absolutely beautifully written and acted and put together.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the White Glove, the three episode story arc with the White Glove murders, with Pembleton's religious and ethical conflict about with God is just so poignant and so touching and so well done.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Just keep going. New watchers and listeners, keep watching.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not a classical procedure. It's not a classical case of the week.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's much more character driven, much more philosophical.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously there are tensions within the way the show was made that made it a bit more case of the week towards the end because obviously the first series is so character driven and obviously got ongoing cases that last for the whole season and beyond with Vadena Watson and that thread and all that.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think also, interestingly, we are in that period of TV, kind of used to serial storylines and stuff on TV.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So weirdly, Homicide was a bit innovative in that. And then at the same time, it's not a classical procedural like Law and Order.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very sort of different type of show. And I've always said it's a show much more about life.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It's all about people talk about life whilst investigating death. And that's what makes it so poignant, what makes it stand out.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I found watching Crissetti quite emotional today. I had to go for a walk afterwards because it kind of brought back memories of losing my father.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Not that I lost my father in the similar circumstances, but I watched it around that time and the themes of loss and how one deals with loss, etc.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of brought a lot of emotions back that had to kind of go and process for half an hour.

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's so great about this show. And that's what makes it stand out, I think, and makes it stand the test of time in comparison to other shows that are much more about just the case of the week.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so it's definitely worth your time.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely a number of layers deeper than most, I'm not going to say all television, but then most television cop shows for sure.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, indeed.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Terrific.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yay, let's pop that cork. Hold on.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: There we go. Woo! Pop the cork.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Nicely done. Well done, everybody.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, no, thank you everybody for listening. And again, congratulations to you, Susan, and the cast and crew of Homicide.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Finally, you've had your moment.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope this is the beginning of a new chapter for new fans to find the show and it gets a new lease of life, which it richly deserves.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely. 100%, everybody. Keep watching.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then once you finish all seven seasons and the movie, start over because you miss things and it continues to be delightful and also funny.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a funny show in between the poignancy and the drama. It is funny, like knife edge funny.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It is like laugh out loud funny, unexpected funny outbursts.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the funniest shows around, weirdly.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_00]: There we go. Well, we're going to wrap up, but thank you everybody for listening and we will catch you on our next episode, which is with Isabella Hoffman.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, I wasn't sure if we would have teased that.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please come back because you're getting to see Megan Russert and Isabella Hoffman in that really complicated role for her and terrific interview coming up with her.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so stay tuned.