S1 Ep9: Isabella Hofmann, Captain. Megan Russert

[00:00:15] Welcome to Homicide Life On The Set, a podcast about the Emmy Award-winning television show

[00:00:20] Homicide Life On The Street with myself Chris Carr and Susan Ingram. On today's podcast we're

[00:00:33] joined by Isabella Hofmann who played Lieutenant, then Captain and then Detective Megan Russert.

[00:01:11] Hello everybody and welcome back to the podcast. Isabella Hofmann is our guest today. Susan,

[00:01:16] how are you doing? You all right? I'm doing great. I'm really, really happy to have Isabella on and

[00:01:22] I think people will really enjoy this episode. Yeah indeed. It was great to have her on and she was

[00:01:27] sort of very open and honest about her experiences on the show and talked a little bit about obviously

[00:01:33] the female perspective of being on the show because the homicide was mainly a quite a male

[00:01:38] dominaced environment so that was a very interesting perspective on that so I'm glad we

[00:01:42] managed to chat with her and her being one of the original women on the show so it was fantastic

[00:01:48] to get her on. Yeah and I love the contrast between Reed coming in as a newbie on the show

[00:01:54] and also as a newbie as a character and her coming in as a new person into the ensemble but being

[00:01:59] a known character and her perspectives on how that worked for her, you know, in real life

[00:02:06] how that energy worked for her too in a different way than it did for Reed which was interesting.

[00:02:12] Yes, yes indeed indeed. Well without further ado we'll go into the episode and then we will catch

[00:02:18] you on the other side. Isabella welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you on. We have,

[00:02:44] you know, Captain Russet herself. Oh I am so excited to be here. I really am. I am so

[00:02:51] happy that you're doing this. I have loved doing homicide and I love the show and I love that

[00:02:58] you're bringing this back and I love that you're talking to all the people and it's been really

[00:03:04] interesting listening to the few podcasts that I was able to hear. I'm so happy that we're

[00:03:11] doing this and I'm really glad to be here. Thanks. Well thank you. Thanks for coming on

[00:03:15] with us because you and Melissa obviously, you know, women detectives the first ones on the show

[00:03:22] at a time when that was not, you know, a normal thing and I think today it isn't even a normal

[00:03:28] thing 30 years later so we really wanted to talk to you. I'm glad. Yeah it was very flattered

[00:03:33] that you asked me to come on. Oh gosh absolutely. It's great to see you. Just to back up a

[00:03:39] little bit on that, you know, as somebody who was one of the only technical people

[00:03:43] on the set and of course we had, there were other women in the crew obviously, you know,

[00:03:48] set dressers, you know, hair and makeup and all that but I always felt like there was,

[00:03:54] there was some kind of helpful connection with me being on the set with you and with

[00:03:59] me being on the set with Melissa. I think there was this sense like I could look over

[00:04:06] if you're the actress and see somebody that understood what was going on in the middle of

[00:04:12] this male environment and you and I think Melissa also had commented on that at the time that they

[00:04:19] were glad that I was, my face was there all the time basically. I was so glad that you were there.

[00:04:26] I mean it we were a minority. We were definitely a minority. It was a male dominated universe

[00:04:35] and there was a lot of male energy. There was a lot, a lot going on and there was not for lack

[00:04:47] of wanting to understand but you know there's a little disconnect sometimes between the male,

[00:04:55] female thing going on as far as work goes but not within the writing, never within the

[00:05:04] writing. Oh gosh, we'll talk about that especially those first three episodes with you were just amazing.

[00:05:10] That was a trip. But do you want to back up and talk about just how you want to give us an

[00:05:14] overview of it? How did you got into acting and how you got to homicide? Had you worked with

[00:05:18] people before? You know aside from the fact that I was always trying to make my sister laugh

[00:05:26] when we were little. I started in Chicago, I'm from Chicago born and raised and

[00:05:33] I started in the theater there and I also was a member of the main stage at Second City

[00:05:41] for a couple of years so I did a lot of improvisation and we did eight shows a week,

[00:05:48] 50 weeks out of the year you know in front of a pretty large crowd I think it held about 300

[00:05:55] some odd people who were all drinking so that was always fun. Tough crowd. Yeah tough crowd.

[00:06:05] Sometimes the neighbors got a little ornery but it was the best tool that I had. I also

[00:06:14] was able to do when I wasn't at Second City prior to that I got my training there

[00:06:24] in Chicago. I worked at other theaters like the Goodman and Wisdom Bridge and you know North Light

[00:06:31] Rep where oddly enough one of the directors who came on to observe I think he might have been a

[00:06:38] friend of Jimmy's, Yashamora's and I had worked with him in the theater way back in Chicago.

[00:06:46] Michael Maggio yeah. Second City that's a big launching pad for a lot of people Second City.

[00:06:52] Well it is a big launching pad but I was probably the only person who did not want to go on

[00:07:09] that's another story I don't even know if I want to tell that one. That could be for

[00:07:13] our podcast. Yeah for another podcast it's not about homicides to listen I'll go there.

[00:07:20] But after Second City we even did a stint in New York they wanted our company to go to New

[00:07:28] York we did this crazy show called Orwell that ends well and they wanted us to perform at

[00:07:33] Village Gate. I mean it wasn't a touring company but they took our company and we were there for

[00:07:39] quite a few months Village Gate is no longer there so I got a chance to live in New York.

[00:07:44] I always thought I'd end up in New York. I always thought I'd end up in New York

[00:07:48] and then I got a gig in Los Angeles. It was weird there was a couple of gentlemen who wanted to

[00:07:56] manage me who came to Second City why they asked me I don't know but they asked me.

[00:08:01] So I went out to Los Angeles for pilot season. I didn't get anything during my two week

[00:08:07] vacation from Second City then I flew back and then there was this one thing that they wanted me

[00:08:12] to audition for it was a period piece and I love period pieces love them it was a western

[00:08:19] and they asked these people the network if they wanted to if they could fly me out and they're

[00:08:26] like we don't even know who she is we don't know her why would we fly her out so I did I think

[00:08:32] one of the very first self tapes I had my agent wow yes I said okay all right so I had my agent

[00:08:43] use a vcr and record me and then we fedexed the recording of my audition to Los Angeles

[00:08:51] and then they flew me out nice so they flew me out to meet with the male lead who happened to be

[00:08:59] Matthew Perry's dad John Beniperi I'm just reading his memoir right now yeah Matthew Perry's memoir

[00:09:06] and uh yeah yeah we're losing so many people we'll talk about that later but we're it's

[00:09:15] very strange I don't know if it's because of my age or or what have you but I've there's so many

[00:09:23] but I digress so I met with him and then and then and then I was getting ready to come back on a

[00:09:31] plane because I had to go to work you know I have a working mentality I'm from Chicago

[00:09:36] so I had to get back to go out of plane and then they stopped me and they said well we don't

[00:09:39] have any footage of you can you just put on some makeup hair and makeup and do an m.o.s for two

[00:09:44] minutes just talking to the crew I think so they were hoping that I didn't look weird on camera

[00:09:49] so that's what I did I had no footage it was the strangest initiation into getting a job and I

[00:09:57] literally came to Los Angeles with a gig um Joy Sloan was not who was the earth mother

[00:10:05] of second city and Britney solans weren't too happy about my leaving but you know there was always

[00:10:10] someone there to be able to take your place and I was gone I ended up in LA wow and the rest is

[00:10:17] history and you know and then I was there and then I didn't get an audition for like three months

[00:10:22] I'm like why and it turned out because they thought I was Irish I played an Irish immigrant

[00:10:29] they said we don't need any Irish actors and my my agent my agent was like she's from Chicago

[00:10:36] you must be very convincing it's good apparently you did such a good job huh

[00:10:43] that's a Chicago accent not an Irish accent yeah I just no yeah I did that that's funny what show

[00:10:51] was that was it a feature or tv movie or it was a backdoor a backdoor pilot made for tv

[00:10:59] movie that we shot in Santa Fe called independence and there's a lot of things called independence

[00:11:05] but it was so it was my initiation into you know that world of film and television and it was

[00:11:13] it was great that was my first gig and it was a lot of fun my first film gig nice western

[00:11:20] those are fun those are fun would love to do one of those again so how did you cross paths or get

[00:11:26] get the get on get on the homicide how did that happen they they're looking for an Irish cop right

[00:11:34] oh ridiculous yeah I don't I wasn't doing I was off I don't remember what I just finished no I

[00:11:42] did Dear John for four years I you know a comedy I was doing something else I might have come

[00:11:48] off a pilot but it was I think it was summer or close to summer and I wasn't working which is when

[00:11:55] I decided my hairdresser and I because I like to play around with looks and costumes and things like

[00:12:00] that and I've been every color under the sun and I've never been blonde so I decided well let's

[00:12:06] try blonde I've never been a blonde so then I got cast and I had to stay blonde which was weird

[00:12:12] so that's that's what did that and that's why I became a blonde but not why I got homicide

[00:12:19] I don't know if that was a detriment or if it was meant to be but I auditioned I auditioned

[00:12:27] and the casting director at the time worked with me a little bit because it was it was such a

[00:12:35] you know naturalistic almost almost minimalist kind of acting style right and and I was just

[00:12:44] and it was great it was so much fun and I loved the script and I loved the character

[00:12:50] and they he saw something and he went I want I want to give you this adjustment I said okay

[00:12:56] we did that and then he sent it off and I was expecting to go in front of the network

[00:13:00] after that if it went any further and I didn't they just had me meet with Barry

[00:13:06] straight to the top first time I met Barry when they said we we think we want you to meet with

[00:13:13] Barry now and I was like okay this is new kind of a thing so he was shooting disclosure yes

[00:13:21] and I just I came to meet with him and I didn't read for him I didn't do anything I just

[00:13:27] met with him he was on a break they were doing something and I was fascinated by the set so

[00:13:32] I just started asking him a lot of questions you know I was like so what and oh are you doing

[00:13:40] this there's so much glass here I said how how are you shooting with this and is this

[00:13:44] like a metaphor for trying to get into you know I was just I was picking his brain about

[00:13:50] what he was doing so I don't know what he got from me

[00:13:55] I don't know interesting and then I got I don't know I don't know why I was just curious I think

[00:14:02] I have a curiosity I like to do research I like doing that sort of thing well there much notes

[00:14:09] on the character in that process before you met Barry at all like what they were looking for

[00:14:14] they were looking for a lieutenant I don't remember the notes that they gave me but

[00:14:20] my instinct was to make her human first they said she's the female cop she's the lieutenant in a

[00:14:28] male dominated environment you know and I knew I couldn't go in there trying to be a guy

[00:14:37] right or trying to act like a tough guy that was not that's not gonna that's not equality

[00:14:42] that's not gonna not not for me I mean if you already are if you already lean that way great

[00:14:47] I had to make it work for me so I had to make her a person first

[00:14:54] and she's a person and like myself I was raised in a kind of a on the south side of Chicago

[00:15:01] so I'm one of those people that doesn't look like she came from some kind of a tough background

[00:15:07] and I never looked like I fit into that sort of environment but I lived there and I lived it

[00:15:14] and I observed it and I was this kid and I was just like good kid and

[00:15:21] but I was in this weird environment and it was just how do you survive that so

[00:15:26] so I just was that kid I was the the person who had the background who had the knowledge

[00:15:36] and if you were going to talk to me or if I would I'm not going to go head to head with you if

[00:15:43] we're yelling a male could always a guy could always yell louder than me

[00:15:49] and it doesn't make any sense if I'm giving orders and I'm not going to try to dominate

[00:15:54] them that would be not the way in you cannot argue with someone and bring them over to your side

[00:16:01] they just dig in deeper so whenever I had a confrontation I lowered my voice I started

[00:16:08] whispering you had a lot of confrontations with the male yeah had you played a cop before

[00:16:13] I think so I don't know before that I don't know if I had but I read I read a bit of

[00:16:20] David Simon's book before so I got the idea and I went oh these guys are like Chicago only different

[00:16:29] they had I understood the gallows humor I understood that from Second City I understood that you know

[00:16:37] I understood the how you had to sort of block off your feelings in order to do your job and how

[00:16:44] it became something that you had to do in order to get a broader perspective of the situation

[00:16:50] so and be able to be objective going in and looking at a case

[00:16:57] and yeah and I would I would get quieter if I was confronted by one of my fellow

[00:17:03] officers or one of the guys that I was trying to get to so they would have to come in and listen

[00:17:10] and hear what I had to say because my job was to be heard and understood and you had the

[00:17:16] authority they couldn't argue with these ultimately they couldn't argue with that authority right

[00:17:21] they weren't supposed to argue with the authority but you know how that goes

[00:17:28] there's a few scenes pop into my head as you described this so the first one that pops in my

[00:17:31] head is the fight between Pendleton and Gaffney and I think you pull Pendleton's gun out

[00:17:36] you can shoot one another if you want to and it's brilliant scene brilliant scene

[00:17:41] go it and and that was a scene that they wrote it was sort of the scene that had to be done in

[00:17:47] order to establish her as an authority and Andre was like you know I would never do that I would

[00:17:54] never let anybody grab my gun and I went we're gonna have to do it for this and so how would

[00:18:00] we make it happen how are we gonna make that happen for yeah for that and and we were

[00:18:07] directed in in that and I learned all about firearms and guns and things like that

[00:18:14] prior to doing that I learned how to I went to a a range I learned how to shoot a gun even though

[00:18:21] a homicide detective never really takes out their gun but I knew my background had to dictate

[00:18:26] that I knew what to do I felt like I had to know sure what I was doing yeah I didn't have the

[00:18:33] opportunity like some of the other guys to ride around with the police department or the homicide

[00:18:38] division or pick their brains like it happened really fast my coming on to the show it was like

[00:18:44] within a span of two weeks yeah if you've listened to some of the other other episodes

[00:18:49] Reid talked about and this is interesting it's like the opposite dynamic for you Reid talked

[00:18:53] about coming in as a greenhorn into the ensemble cast and his character was coming in as a

[00:19:00] greenhorn into this ensemble homicide unit you were coming in new in the middle of an established show

[00:19:06] established ensemble cast but your character had to be already established you had to already

[00:19:15] know everybody you already knew your job you had to already have that authority you had all these

[00:19:19] things that as an actor coming in you didn't have you you were jumping into this probably

[00:19:25] fairly scary you know dynamic but you just come in and you are you're like a part of the furniture

[00:19:34] I mean you're already there established character and you played it to the nth degree I mean there

[00:19:42] was no doubt in my mind as soon as you come on to the screen that everybody knows you that

[00:19:47] G already trusts you that there's already this dynamic of not trusting the woman lieutenant

[00:19:51] there's all this stuff that you jump into so how how was that as an actor having to come into that

[00:19:59] although you were coming in in green but not being able to use that you know you had to

[00:20:05] come in as an expert you know no I I was able to use some of that because I knew what came

[00:20:13] before me having you know reading the script and knowing what people say about you and you

[00:20:22] as as a as an employee you know what what proceed what reputation precedes you so I knew that I was

[00:20:32] still a greenhorn to them to the to not just to the cast but to the characters interesting point

[00:20:40] right so I knew that I had to establish something kind of quickly and this is how it's going to be

[00:20:51] and I'm not going to be try to be like you and I'm not going to try to make you do your job my way

[00:20:57] I'm not going to make you work my way I'm going to work your way I'm going to adapt

[00:21:02] to you so I adapted I adapted it's what I do as an actor I adapted and I watched just like

[00:21:11] in my old neighborhood I adapted and watched and let's see what happens

[00:21:16] so I have the utmost respect for each and every one of those actors it was awesome

[00:21:26] and terrifying at the same time to walk in there but I did not want to

[00:21:33] feel afraid so I just thought I'm going to dig in and I'm going to work it is it's intimidating

[00:21:40] to walk in and see them all already established why is there a new character on the show

[00:21:48] why is she here what's going on can she work is she gonna hold her own blah blah blah blah

[00:21:53] blah blah yeah I mean you really carried that authority like um you know it made me think of

[00:21:59] Helen Mirren and prime suspect I mean you know thank you you knew you know that you knew your

[00:22:05] stuff you know there was a very strong character to jump into no I loved that character I love

[00:22:12] that she was so strong and I love that she was strong in a genderless way as well

[00:22:18] um just a person so I was a person who does this job who still has to hold on to her vulnerability

[00:22:26] because she's also a mom and that's how I approached it from the get go yeah one question

[00:22:34] pops my mind is did you get an opportunity to sort of hang out but sort of uh shadow any real

[00:22:40] sort of detectives or chat with any real detect especially female police officers at all in your

[00:22:44] prep I I didn't I didn't have that opportunity I tried and if anyone was on the set who was you

[00:22:52] know I would pick their brains I would I would ask questions like I like I when I was with Barry how

[00:22:57] it just asks questions about what they were doing so I did that I sort of played catchers catch can

[00:23:05] and um did more and more research as I went along and I spent a lot of time with Yafet

[00:23:12] and I picked his brain a lot and I spent I picked Daniel's brain a lot and you know not that those

[00:23:21] I mean there's still also actors and things like that but I just got what I could and

[00:23:30] try to slide in to the character as someone who knows all this stuff I have to do my research

[00:23:37] if I'm going to do a character I have to so and given the short amount of time that I had I

[00:23:45] I looked at footage of things before I came out there and I I just read the book got an idea

[00:23:56] so did they have all three scripts written because that was a storyline that obviously

[00:24:02] went across three you know your first three episodes was one storyline the white glove

[00:24:07] the white glove murders and you jump in and Barry Levinson is directing your first episode and he

[00:24:14] only directed a few yeah so did you note all three scripts ahead of time because this there's

[00:24:19] really really really good that those three episodes together I think some of the best

[00:24:25] out of the whole show and because of the complexity of the women characters and

[00:24:30] your dynamic with Melissa too in the situations where you both had

[00:24:35] sensibilities and connections with the bow character especially when you came back after he had

[00:24:40] been murdered so how did how did how did that all look to you I mean that just must have been

[00:24:45] an amazing bunch of scripts to get for your first couple episodes yeah really deep end

[00:24:51] I'm trying to remember if I got all three at once or if I just got one at a time I think

[00:24:59] as soon as I got them I read them but I trusted the writing so much that yeah I had to know where

[00:25:07] I was going and if I didn't have the script I think I was told where it was gonna kind of go

[00:25:18] or you know had little bits of information I wish I could remember I don't know I just

[00:25:25] I don't know it's too long ago dang it sure oh believe me we all we all feel that not remembering

[00:25:34] stuff very good scripts is it Jorge Zamacona's the lead writer on that particular first episode

[00:25:39] there's a really yeah you know so many things kind of going on because it's sort of dealing with

[00:25:45] sexism it's dealing with relationships it's obviously this killer and the politics of it

[00:25:50] so much going on in those three episodes yeah there's so many layers to it there's so many layers

[00:25:56] to it and it was such a great thing to dive into but as I said wasn't a lot of lead time

[00:26:04] including the fact that my first day on the set I didn't I'm I'm so used to I think I must have

[00:26:10] done a couple of cop shows before then because um because I was so used to the TV blocking they're

[00:26:16] gonna block you they're gonna do this so I went up there I did not know our first scene the very

[00:26:22] first scene was that rooftop scene do you remember that scene from the with Melissa no the rooftop

[00:26:29] scene in the first in the white gloves um the very first episode that I came on was the first

[00:26:36] episode of the season that Barry was directing and there was a a news guy there so we went up

[00:26:42] on the roof oh yes yeah Tony Todd yeah Tony Todd great actor great actor yes all right yes yes yes

[00:26:49] it was so much fun so I get up there and there's this roof and it's very sunny and I walk on set

[00:27:00] and Jean was there and he goes you could just go anywhere and I went wait what

[00:27:08] yeah but it was it was that combination and I remember that Jean said the same thing you know

[00:27:14] you're prepared he was prepared to direct but you had that that one minute that one 32nd thing of

[00:27:21] holy crap you know I can go anywhere what if what if I don't deliver in my where I'm going kind

[00:27:31] of a but then my improv background which I I mean I love improv and I love the spontaneity of it so

[00:27:44] initially for 30 seconds that sentence took me by surprise although I don't know that I even blinked

[00:27:53] I just went oh okay and and proceeded to do it and it was the most freeing thing ever

[00:28:02] I thought oh I have this stage because I come from this stage I could do whatever I want I don't

[00:28:07] need to worry about my my mark I don't need to worry about anything how can we make this

[00:28:15] look good do I need to move more but Jean seemed to just be following so I just did my thing and moved

[00:28:23] where I was kind of motivated to move and it made so much sense and it was so good and so fluid

[00:28:33] and it was exhilarating to come off doing that first scene and I thought yeah and it looks so

[00:28:40] great there's there's one scene with in one of these and I just rewatched these like you know the

[00:28:47] last day or so so then I can't remember which one it was but this one of the scenes on the roof

[00:28:53] with with Kyle and this goes to your point about not having to hit marks with Kyle and

[00:28:59] Andre I think they're talking about Kyle's uncle you know that had abused him and that he was

[00:29:03] trying to be nice to and Andre had found him to follow him and found out what's happening

[00:29:07] and they're talking and and and Kyle's in the background and Andre's in the foreground

[00:29:13] and the whole scene plays with him sort of separated like that and just at the end is

[00:29:17] there about to land on the last shot Andre's in the foreground and he sort of covers Kyle

[00:29:24] and I thought you know in in in the the traditional world of filmmaking somebody

[00:29:28] was said cut we have to reset it I couldn't see Kyle Andre could you step over here could you

[00:29:33] do this and in the world of homicide Jean just took a step and a half to the left and revealed

[00:29:40] both of them still Andre in the foreground and Kyle in the background beautiful end shot like

[00:29:47] buttoned to the scene but they didn't have to change what they had done in the scene and

[00:29:52] they didn't have to change their emotion or their reaction to each other he just very quietly

[00:29:57] slides over and has this beautiful composition at the end so that's I think that gets to what

[00:30:04] you're talking about where there wasn't a sense that you had to double think where I have to be

[00:30:09] I can just be the character right is that how it felt and I can just do my performance

[00:30:15] and I can just be it really helped the actors to just try to just be in character and I love

[00:30:24] that he was always there I I thought of him as the yoga master of you know camera work

[00:30:30] he was he was Yoda to me too he was a yoga yoga and yoga yoga master you know the barizhnikov of

[00:30:38] you know whatever it was he he was seamless and it was so impressive I spent most of my time

[00:30:47] just watching him when I wasn't working because it it was fascinating and so freeing and you got the

[00:30:56] best performances I think someone had mentioned that it was what we call the sloppy show

[00:31:03] the sloppy show I don't think so if it wasn't real received initially well initially it was

[00:31:10] I think the first episode or the first couple of episodes were a little bit more jarring I

[00:31:16] think it was before Jean got there yeah the first season was a different cameraman with had a different

[00:31:22] style yeah it was a different style I still love the jumping jump cuts but it yeah it was it was it

[00:31:29] was um it was different than Jean's and I I don't know what that was like to to work with I'm sure

[00:31:36] maybe it was the same um was it the same kind of uh do you know the first season was a lot looser

[00:31:43] I know Jean because I always felt Jean's photography caught the moment subtle moments

[00:31:49] better than the early seasons the early seasons was more verite and jump-cutty whilst with Jean's work

[00:31:56] he was using the movement a lot more to kind of catch moments and emotions and I thought yeah you

[00:32:01] know and I think that's where it kind of became he he was talking to us about he

[00:32:05] created some sort of system I still don't fully understood how he created this system but

[00:32:08] he did have some sort of way of doing that and and yeah yeah and it was he because he was hired off

[00:32:14] the back of a feature film that developed that style um I forgot the name right um it was uh yeah I

[00:32:20] forgot it too but dang it gravity something laws of gravity laws of gravity yeah but technically

[00:32:28] yes it was the same cameras it was the same cameras and they were handheld so um it they'd

[00:32:33] started it's it's just a different with the same idea it just just a different style when

[00:32:40] john came in just a different style but I and I didn't have an opportunity to work with who is

[00:32:46] the other cameraman who Wayne Ewing was the first cameraman yes yes Wayne Ewing and uh I didn't have

[00:32:52] an opportunity to work with him because I came in in season three but um but I was just enamored

[00:32:57] of a genre I can I just say one more thing about oh please tell us everything absolutely

[00:33:03] keep going everything you want to tell us there was one shot I don't know if anybody mentioned it

[00:33:09] because I didn't hear some of the I didn't hear Kyle's broadcast anyway I don't know if anybody's

[00:33:15] mentioned it already but there was a shot where we had to go down the stairs and they had John

[00:33:23] it was like they were carrying royalty they had him he was perched on top of two rails as if they were

[00:33:31] carrying you know um an Indian prince and he was just sitting there doing it like I he could have

[00:33:40] smacked the pavement any day any moment but he was just sitting there and they carried him

[00:33:46] they carried him down the stairs the sedan chair the sedan the sedan chair that was what it was

[00:33:53] oh my cool and then and then his little like yoga moves where he would sit cross-legged and just

[00:34:00] sit down and just go okay and he'd just slide back and forth uh the man was way ahead of his

[00:34:07] time and I don't know anybody who has learned how to do it the same way since do you yeah

[00:34:14] it was it was kind of amazing to watch I never I worked with a a cameraman that did a lot of handheld

[00:34:20] with a 35 millimeter camera but it was not there was no style like John had and the thing that was

[00:34:27] cool about that was that those kinds of things um that the grips and electricians and everybody

[00:34:33] had to invent for the show made it just as creatively exciting for the crew as it did

[00:34:39] for the actors and directors and for John so it's sort of all that all that filtered through

[00:34:46] because it was new and different it was a real it was a real ensemble show from the writing

[00:34:54] to the acting to the crewing I that's how I felt because you had to all come together you

[00:35:02] had to be the scaffolding for one another you had to whether you wanted to or not you

[00:35:08] you kind of had to the actors were always on camera which was great because when you went to work

[00:35:14] you actually worked and I like that I love that sort of thing I don't like dropping back out of a

[00:35:23] character and then having to build up the energy again and coming back in you actually worked and

[00:35:29] you worked for everyone it was an egalitarian kind of a place it just was in my opinion um

[00:35:39] of course Andre was always just that once notch above I adore him he's kind of amazing

[00:35:52] I really did he was pretty amazing do you ever see him do Shakespeare I mean not just on

[00:35:58] exactly not just on set because he would break into Shakespeare on set a woody oh cool oh yeah

[00:36:04] he was amazing and then where he ended up in comedy it was like man you've done it all yeah

[00:36:12] he was very good in Brooklyn 999 that was such a great it's interesting though that you say that

[00:36:17] you know a lot of actors had to um had to sort of I think maybe had a longer adjustment period

[00:36:25] to that style of shooting when if you come from second city and you come from thinking on your feet

[00:36:30] and you don't necessarily come from okay stop you know we're going to do the close-up you're

[00:36:36] just going to be off camera doing the reactions you know you can read off camera or you can go

[00:36:41] back to your trailer and somebody will stand there and read the lines for the actor and that

[00:36:45] was never it was always everybody all was always in the scene and always on so was

[00:36:51] was that something that that you that you were able to bring from second city oh yeah I mean I

[00:36:57] think yes I think my improv background is one of the best tools that I've ever had as an actor I

[00:37:05] highly recommend it for any actor if you can learn how to improvise you will never be at a loss

[00:37:13] as to what to do so you just have to you have to do your other work you have to be in character

[00:37:19] you have to act and think like that character but to improvise yeah I once like improvised a whole

[00:37:25] half a scene on stage when somebody forgot their cue you know and it was not it was not even a

[00:37:33] it was not even a problem for me I thought I was the can I tell you this one anecdote

[00:37:39] yes I was I was a newbie I came on to do uh to take Deborah Joe Rupp's place in this

[00:37:47] comedy called a girl's guide to chaos um because she got this little thing called that 70s show

[00:37:52] so she had to leave right so I was doing another sitcom and came on so I thought when I had one

[00:37:59] rehearsal with them and then came on we were supposed to do the scene and the lights come up

[00:38:04] and the actor is not there and I the first thing that went through my head was oh they're

[00:38:10] fucking with me you know and I thought it was funny because I come from second city where

[00:38:14] everybody screws with can I say that on camera yes absolutely so I thought oh you know they're just

[00:38:20] messing with me so I went on and I thought I'll just do a I'll pull a bob new heart I was calling

[00:38:26] her on the phone the lights came up she was supposed to pick up so I was just like I was

[00:38:30] talking on the phone and then this person comes in behind me like about a minute later

[00:38:37] with like half dressed no shoes on she apparently because it was a different actor on the set

[00:38:45] just kind of lost track of where we were was dressing for the other scene was naked when

[00:38:50] she heard her cue and couldn't get back on stage and then I looked at her and then she comes in

[00:38:57] and I was like oh shit um so I hang up I said oh I was just leaving you a message and I hang

[00:39:04] up the phone and she starts talking to me to give me these lines and I was like wait a minute

[00:39:10] you came all the way over here dressed like that to tell me this and and she she was she said

[00:39:16] don't talk she she whispered don't don't and I was like oh oh she's not playing oh shoot

[00:39:26] you know so I just yeah so I'm I don't really care what you throw in front of me

[00:39:33] long story to get to that point sorry big snore on with the show it's good it's good

[00:39:40] no that was great I love that it just it just shows the the the the ability that you had when

[00:39:46] you when you jumped into this situation where where you know the camera never you never

[00:39:52] know where the camera is going to be and you've always got to be on and you've got to be in

[00:39:56] character and and you got to play through the scene all the scenes all the time but everybody's

[00:40:03] got that ability you just have to tap into it you have to be willing to tap into it and you

[00:40:08] got to trust it that's it and and it's the not trusting that gets into trouble so when you get

[00:40:13] that little bubble of fear happening like I did for those 30 seconds when he was like okay done

[00:40:20] with that what are we doing yeah so were there any um fears over kind of performance continuity or

[00:40:28] anything like that or any techniques you had to use I have a tool belt I have a veritable tool belt

[00:40:33] of technique that I could draw from but I it's so kind of I don't even think about it when I do

[00:40:41] that um so maybe yes I do operate quite a bit on instinct it's my first impulse is usually the

[00:40:52] right one so if I'm at a loss for something that's what I that's what I go to but the continuity

[00:41:02] of the character I always have to know where I'm going and where I'm coming from but I create

[00:41:09] that for myself because you have to yeah and you have to know where you're going you have to know

[00:41:15] when you're shooting something obviously it's a given where you have been and where you're coming

[00:41:22] from and where you're going next you have to know that um but I just made stuff up if I didn't see

[00:41:31] it yeah going into the ensemble cast had you worked of any of the cast previously or was

[00:41:38] everybody pretty much new to you I worked with Ned previous I also worked with Yafet previously

[00:41:43] because when I saw him I did he I don't know if he remembered me until I told him but we did a movie

[00:41:50] together I can't remember what the name of it was I'm don't ask me we did a movie together and I was

[00:41:55] so impressed he's a formidable presence you know but I had a picture taken with him when we

[00:42:02] were doing the Polaroids of something where my hand was against his hand and it I I I looked like a

[00:42:09] little abutian I didn't know I you know it was it was big it was ginormous so I just reminded him

[00:42:20] of that picture and he just started laughing so I I worked with him and then I had actually

[00:42:28] done a sitcom six episodes of The Boys with Ned Beatty, Doris Roberts and um yeah and and

[00:42:40] Chris Maloney and I were sort of moved over to this sitcom when this pilot that we did didn't go

[00:42:48] and so I had worked with him on that and then briefly talked with him about homicides that oh

[00:42:55] yeah you get to go back to that show he goes out or picked up for four or something something like

[00:43:00] that I think was it was the second season right exactly it was a weird pickup until they finally

[00:43:06] got the whole 23 going yeah the first couple seasons were weird truncated seasons and you know

[00:43:13] what I realized and I don't know and you can tell me if you remember this at the time

[00:43:17] I didn't well I remembered it because I realized it recently but I don't know that I remembered

[00:43:21] at the time that I worked with you on Real Men that's crazy yes oh my god and Jim Belushi we

[00:43:30] you know I saw something the other day was like wait a minute she was the wife in Real Men I was

[00:43:36] and do you know that and that was a moment where editing did not work in my favor

[00:43:44] the thing that was amazing about that movie was it was so I'm gonna say it

[00:43:50] fucking funny when we shot it it was funny and it was it it was when it came out I mean

[00:43:57] John Ritter and you and it was really I mean they had to stop rolling the cameras so much

[00:44:04] because with the crew was cracking up um and then it didn't it what it didn't and I don't

[00:44:09] mean to get off the track but I had just realized like you and I had worked on something else

[00:44:13] before it did not know we have to talk about that go for it could it have been the editing because

[00:44:21] there I mean I don't know if it was the way that it was cut because there was a moment in there

[00:44:26] and I don't know lends itself to how good this show was put together I guess we could use that as

[00:44:32] a little bridge but there was a moment where where uh John says something to me and and I respond

[00:44:41] in a way to something that he had done with with this look and it was like a look of fear and

[00:44:52] then they just showed that like for no reason and I was and I thought okay that looks really weird

[00:45:00] yeah I don't I don't know what happened it was it was sort of shocking was it was sort of the

[00:45:06] opposite of we talked about this on another episode when I worked with Yafit on Star Chamber

[00:45:11] and remember thinking what is he doing like I could not tell what he was doing and he was so

[00:45:15] brilliant in that so we're on real men and it's like I mean it was so it was some of the funniest

[00:45:21] stuff I have ever seen I am so glad you said that because I was beginning to doubt my own you

[00:45:27] watched it now it's like what was happening why did this movie get made yeah yeah so anyway

[00:45:34] so enough of a digression I don't remember at the time if we remembered each other

[00:45:38] from that so funny I don't know I'm so I I'm so glad you brought that up though because you were so

[00:45:44] not totally different character you know you were the you were sort of like almost like I was the

[00:45:49] little Kathleen Turner in serial modern you were sort of like the perfect little a little

[00:45:53] little white step furnished in a satirical way in a satiric you know but yeah so sorry for that

[00:45:59] digression Chris but I had just realized that the other day it's good it's good well

[00:46:04] it leads in I was because there's an obvious kind of chemistry between you and Yuffa that

[00:46:09] there's a respect and everything and I was wondering if you'd met each other before it just comes

[00:46:14] across like your old colleagues it's brilliant and so yeah yeah I didn't have that much to do with

[00:46:20] him in the film so I didn't really know him that well what I think but he was very happy

[00:46:26] when he was working with me and I think I think they did that a lot because it kept

[00:46:31] happy they put us together in these scenes so I did a lot of stuff with Yuffa and and the other thing was

[00:46:43] I let him dictate if he wanted to try to do something I was like sure let's just play

[00:46:49] I didn't have I didn't care I mean it's I did care I shouldn't say I don't care my son says

[00:47:01] really I said either way is fine he goes well why didn't you say that and it was well it was interesting

[00:47:07] in that it it gave a depth I'm saying it I think even a different level of depth of character

[00:47:14] to Yuffa to have that relationship with you and to have that respectful relationship with you

[00:47:19] like it was no doubt to him like you knew how to do your job you know what you're doing there

[00:47:22] wasn't any there was there was no hesitation in his character that that you knew what you were

[00:47:28] doing and so I think that gave another level even though he'd obviously before you came had already

[00:47:34] dealt with Melissa's character with Kay Howard um and then and of course then you know she comes up

[00:47:40] she has more she's in Marvin an authority um position when you come in because at that

[00:47:45] point she's a sergeant but and I I'm gonna know what I'm talking about but the back to

[00:47:50] K is that the interesting thing I thought also the way it was written was your first encounter

[00:47:56] with Melissa's character you know she's sort of about say wow it's so great to be working with you

[00:48:01] and you basically say why are you standing around we have a red ball get to work what are you doing

[00:48:06] and and as you walk away she goes bitch and so what it was like such a great um it was such

[00:48:15] a great moment because it could have been stereotypical like oh the two women are really

[00:48:19] going to get along and they're going to support each other and you guys had a prickly relationship

[00:48:23] and I think until um the bow murder where you come together in a way that's a little bit more

[00:48:30] understanding but it was so great that it was written as a prickly uh a prickly relationship

[00:48:36] um where it could have been stereotypically like oh the girls are going to like each other

[00:48:39] and that didn't happen and did how did you feel about that yeah I I thought it was great

[00:48:45] because we were completely different characters because um I thought oh are they balancing

[00:48:50] it out a little bit are they making me a little bit more feminine because even um the costume

[00:48:56] department made me I mean I I loved my costumes yes those first couple of you had that pencil

[00:49:02] skirt on girl the first episode I'm like at least you had a slit in it so you could walk I'm like

[00:49:07] she's got a pencil what's she even willing to walk around the set what's happening yeah yeah but

[00:49:13] but I you know I like all departments meaning I try to work with them so I tried to show off

[00:49:20] those clothes as best as I could absolutely beautiful beautiful wardrobe and I thought

[00:49:24] if I'm going to do that if I'm the girl who's made up and dressed up and the opposite and Melissa

[00:49:31] is like this is me in all my beauty just as I am and take me or leave me it you know

[00:49:38] but both of us had that take me or leave me kind of an attitude which came together and

[00:49:44] that was the point of contention I think so it's like my way no my way yeah yeah true and and I

[00:49:50] think for your character when you get up to the lieutenant level what how do people expect

[00:49:55] you to look professionally they want you to look like a professional working woman as opposed to

[00:50:01] you know the the cop on the beat you know who were all a little sort of rumpled and of

[00:50:06] course Melissa was really good at insisting no makeup this is this is this character and

[00:50:13] this is how she's going to stay she had that she had that hair had gorgeous hair yeah you had

[00:50:19] to fit into that sort of professional into that professional look different it was a different

[00:50:25] look for you yeah for sure yeah I did I I looked completely different they had they I think that

[00:50:32] was intentional so I kind of went with it like the glam version or something I don't know but but

[00:50:38] you were all business too you you were all business there wasn't this sort of phony femininity no

[00:50:43] you were very straightforward all business cop you were which means you don't need to stereotype

[00:50:51] women characters you can just be who you are I loved that it was just it was I was just

[00:50:59] another character and this was who I am and my job is this and that's who I am and so

[00:51:06] this is how I'm going to choose to look and they treated us as individuals and everybody

[00:51:12] was an individual and I remember you made the comment Susan about it being a very diverse set

[00:51:16] before diversity was you know the flavor of the month it's like thank goodness we had this

[00:51:24] great diverse set we had a lot of diversity not just in skin tone but also in personality

[00:51:33] in the way that we thought about think it was just we brought this veritable ecosystem you know

[00:51:43] we had this ecosystem of people we had this this this mishmash of everything together and

[00:51:49] we made it work so somebody can identify with somebody somewhere who's watching everybody was

[00:51:56] unique it was a very unique ensemble everybody was different you're right absolutely that takes a lot

[00:52:04] of creativity and I think my hat goes off to everyone who's involved in the show the

[00:52:13] creative process was never lacking no any it may segue well any memories of working very

[00:52:24] particular actors on the show because we've talked about you're partnered up at one point with

[00:52:29] Richard Belzer and so on there's some really great actors so many great actors in that show

[00:52:36] any any memories you'd like to share oh what do you mean the memories that I can actually

[00:52:40] draw from the remaining the remaining remaining memories I wish the remaining brain cells that

[00:52:49] I have left that's funny because I realized I didn't think at the time also I am three months older

[00:52:54] than you at the time I would have never thought that I always thought the actors were all experienced

[00:52:58] and older than me because I'm just a kid banging the sleep you know I'm like wait a minute so there

[00:53:02] you go yeah whatever memories are still there yeah please yeah share no here we go um yeah

[00:53:09] that haven't prolapsed out of my left ear uh what there's so many I you know it was different working

[00:53:18] with Yafet than it was working with Richard and part of that was that I wasn't used to

[00:53:24] working with Richard so much but it was so much fun working with Richard as well once we got

[00:53:31] that I was again the newbie I was the newbie and by that time my character had been you

[00:53:37] know promoted and double demoted and so there I was yeah by barn father yeah but

[00:53:45] that was I don't I don't know what that they knew what to do with me we couldn't keep having red

[00:53:50] balls I'm we're gonna I'm gonna move on I'll come back to this we couldn't keep having red balls

[00:53:56] that was the only time that Yafet and I could work together and our our paths could cross and

[00:54:03] I wasn't with this other group of detectives so they they had to come up with something so then

[00:54:10] they promoted me and then that was they I guess didn't like that and it I didn't have a lot

[00:54:17] to do except to reprimand the people around me yeah um and as well as Yafet and so that

[00:54:27] caused a strain in our relationship not as actors but as as characters yeah um and and then

[00:54:37] that was okay but then they double demoted me which was a lot more fun so I got to go back on the

[00:54:42] street yeah so I got to play all these different roles as one character which was really interesting

[00:54:51] yeah and not to keep going back to those first three episodes but there there's so many different

[00:54:57] levels that you had to achieve um in the character you know the professional hard-ass lieutenant

[00:55:04] you know who gets to take down and I always get their name there's garrity and garrity I mean the

[00:55:08] one that the nasty one that ended up moving up right that you took down a couple pegs and had

[00:55:14] him sent down down to the like evidence room or something that yeah that was a great that was a great

[00:55:21] gaffney that was gaff right then there's a mirror episode um later on when he becomes the captain

[00:55:28] that was a great confrontation yeah which is he was the guy that I whispered to I didn't

[00:55:34] whisper but I was very quiet yeah he was one of those he was just giving me so much crap and I

[00:55:40] who just didn't talk any louder and it actually forced him as an actor to come close I didn't mean

[00:55:47] so so that was interesting I actually wrote down a quote after that scene I think you're

[00:55:54] talking I think you're talking to um Yafet and you say about that confrontation he turned his

[00:56:01] mistake into my problem and I had to just stand there and rise above it and the way you rose

[00:56:08] above it was just to assume your authority and basically like just tell me where you want to go

[00:56:15] because that's where you're going you're out of here you know without hesitation that was a great

[00:56:20] scene I love that scene right they weren't afraid to um to very be very blunt with the racist and

[00:56:28] sexist um uh interactions that could happen in that kind of environment I mean they were

[00:56:33] pretty upfront with showing that I thought was was also ahead of its time which was definitely ahead

[00:56:41] of its time um yeah definitely ahead of its time I was going to go off on a tangent about something

[00:56:48] else uh that was but about that but no you can go on a tangent yeah good yeah we're not going

[00:56:55] to go on no tangents right now it's okay I have a question I have a question for Susan

[00:57:00] Susan uh what no well I don't know if you yes um do you know because of the amount of time that

[00:57:11] Yafet and I spent in that room what were the conversations with the lighting crew oh because

[00:57:18] it we were impossible to light together yeah you know that right I mean look at me I am like

[00:57:23] paler than pale we talked about that if you if you haven't listened to the Josh and

[00:57:27] Josh and Joe episode the gaffer in the key grip episode oh you know there was there was a okay

[00:57:34] and we talked about how um how well um lit the show was for having so many different skin tones

[00:57:42] and what they would do was they'd have to bring in a special light either either the Chinese the

[00:57:48] paper Chinese lantern which was on the end of a boom pole or a keynote on the end of a boom

[00:57:53] pole something to get some light only specifically for Yafet when he was in a scene with you or read

[00:58:00] or any other you know very light skinned actor but if you watch the show it never looks wrong

[00:58:07] it always looks right so there was it always so there was great effort made um and Jean and

[00:58:15] Alex were very very aware of of that and they made sure that that everybody's skin tones no

[00:58:24] matter what they were were correctly and it also had to be done in a flash right everything had to

[00:58:30] be quickly done and had to be ready to go and so it would have been something like that it would

[00:58:36] have it would have been maybe Josh was in there with the light maybe they maybe they

[00:58:41] clipped another light into the ceiling I don't know but they were always very aware of having to

[00:58:46] to do that oh I know that's that's actually more of what I meant they were always ready and what I

[00:58:52] was thinking about was was there like all these groaning going on like oh crap now we got a oh dear

[00:58:57] you know let's what are we gonna do now that bring in the bring in the big guns no no I don't

[00:59:02] think so I think it was I think it was all part of like I was saying before this this idea of

[00:59:07] how adaptive um the grips and electricians and the camera people how adaptive we all had to be to that

[00:59:14] unusual situation unusual shooting situation the handheld nature of it the fact that every you

[00:59:20] know that the cameras saw everything all the time which was a hell of a uh you know really difficult

[00:59:27] for the sound guys trying to stay out of the shots and get good sound so I think it became

[00:59:32] once the package came together and once everybody understood this is what we're doing you know we're

[00:59:37] doing a shot with yoffin and we're doing a shot with with with you or we're doing a shot with yoffin

[00:59:43] and read or we're doing a shot where there's this huge contrast between the actors and we have the

[00:59:47] package ready it's ready to go and it's going to make it look good um but it has to be fast

[00:59:52] it has to be there and it has to be ready and and I think that that's that was one of the

[00:59:56] things that kept everybody interested and engaged and engaged in the show for like everybody else

[01:00:04] like the actors weren't the only ones who were always on you guys had to be on too we were all

[01:00:10] working never sit down yep we were all working it was a working environment I love that it was

[01:00:17] like a blue collar versus the white collar kind of thing was a blue collar set in that what sort of way

[01:00:26] I luckily had been trained by somebody that literally said that as a camera assistant you

[01:00:32] never sit down and I was trained that and also you never turn your back on the camera

[01:00:38] never you always have to have your eyes on it and so it that was a good training to have

[01:00:43] before I came on that show because you could you couldn't turn around I loved our crew great crew

[01:00:49] well this might segue nicely was there such thing as a typical day on set for you as an actor

[01:00:54] and can you talk just a little bit about maybe if you had a sort of routine or what was what was

[01:00:59] it like being on the set of homicide on a sort of day to day base you came prepared we had a

[01:01:05] good laugh in the makeup you go in your you know I would go into the makeup trailer I had to

[01:01:12] spend time there unlike Melissa who would come in and go yeah am I good I spent time in there I got

[01:01:20] blonder as I as the seasons went on because you know that's I guess the nature of being blonde

[01:01:26] I learned and we would I would talk with them and we would do hair and makeup and they were so

[01:01:36] happy to be when they were doing

[01:01:41] wounds and you know and and horrific looking scars and getting all the bodies in order they were

[01:01:51] that's when they were happy with me they were just like hey you know so we would talk but I was

[01:01:55] always fascinated by what they were doing to somebody else so that's who that's that was

[01:02:02] the beginning of the day and so you go oh you're that dead person okay so then we you'd go on the set

[01:02:12] and you had to be prepared so I was still like looking and thinking about what I was going to be

[01:02:18] doing didn't know what to expect as far as how we're gonna do it and we just did it but what I

[01:02:31] did do was I prepared a lot ahead of time you have to know your business or your lines so well and your

[01:02:40] character and all that so that you can just start to play because that's what it was it was

[01:02:46] it was work but it was also play you really got to play with one another

[01:02:54] and that's and that's what I loved so I got to play every day and I got to work every day

[01:03:01] and I was it was a good tired by the end of the day you know that's true it was a good tired

[01:03:09] usually yeah you felt like you did something we did good work right it was good work yeah

[01:03:15] yeah it wasn't any of this kind of like oh it was it was a good tired

[01:03:20] what was it like work on homicide in comparison like other shows in terms of like the pace and

[01:03:27] things like that I can't think of anything that I enjoyed more as far as drama goes I love doing

[01:03:38] sitcoms because who doesn't want to go to work every day and make somebody laugh but these

[01:03:43] guys would do that anyway because you got bells around the sets so they've got yeah they wouldn't

[01:03:49] make each other laugh and and moving on um so but I really liked doing comedy and at that time when

[01:03:58] I was coming up you know it was unheard of for a comedic actress to do drama and vice versa

[01:04:04] but I liked doing them both uh but as far as the pacing goes you didn't the days went by

[01:04:11] pretty fast as far as I could tell I mean there was some you know sitting around in between

[01:04:18] when we had to set something but it was it was a work day and the pacing was good I've never

[01:04:28] done anything like it since and I wish I could do it again

[01:04:37] that combination of of the writing and the camera work and the the way that people were working and

[01:04:46] the work mentality that happened um the work ethic that happened on that show I guess is what

[01:04:54] I'm trying to say I've never seen it since yeah um yeah well one other random random question I'm

[01:05:05] going to combine two questions in one um when we were talking to Reid uh I was asking him like with

[01:05:11] the pace to show how did you not get sick and he said he did get sick and then the second

[01:05:16] question said that there's how do you what were your sort of survival techniques for getting

[01:05:20] through a show like this and also there's a lot of night work um on the show as well did you have

[01:05:24] any particular ways of handling that oh there's some interesting nightmare of a night work yeah

[01:05:31] especially when I got to be a detective again um um wow there's some really interesting stories

[01:05:37] thank you for bringing that up we shot in a lot of interesting places did we not Susan

[01:05:43] I think we shot in crack houses that were unoccupied at the time and places you would never see ever if

[01:05:50] you haven't worked on that show ever I remember one time we shot I think it was in the projects

[01:05:57] somewhere where were we where were we anyway we were shooting it was cold you do get sick

[01:06:05] um but you get get well uh hopefully uh I think it was I think it was Meldrick and I were doing

[01:06:18] Meldrick and Russert were out on something and you had to make sure that you knew what you were

[01:06:24] doing people all came out you got to talk to people that you would normally not ever be able

[01:06:30] to talk to you got to visit places that would normally be you would never be invited into much

[01:06:38] less welcomed into welcomed exactly you were welcomed yep and to the point where I had a

[01:06:49] conversation with a couple of little kids and uh I had my Glock and they're like is that your Glock

[01:06:59] I went um no he said uh wait what did you say he goes that's a Glock isn't it and I go yeah

[01:07:05] he goes can I see it I went no it's my Glock look what are you talking about go get your own Glock

[01:07:15] and I'm like why he's like eight how does he know what a Glock is and how does he why

[01:07:20] and why would he want to see it and and what kind of what's happening and you know but but no you can't

[01:07:30] touch my Glock you never touch my Glock you can't ever touch don't don't touch another person's gun

[01:07:38] um and uh and there was another time when we were working somewhere and we were in a row house

[01:07:45] and uh and there there was no sheets on the kids beds and initially I thought was is it because we

[01:07:56] were coming in and then I realized no they don't have any they just have the bed and it almost

[01:08:09] and I thought I think I was trying to get sheets I bought some sheets

[01:08:17] and I was going to drop them at the door and I don't remember if I did or not like a couple

[01:08:23] of days later just wanted to drop them but then I didn't know what would happen to them

[01:08:28] I didn't know if I would be would I be insulting someone

[01:08:35] so I don't know whatever happened with that idea but I wanted so desperately to just to

[01:08:42] I bought them and I don't remember if I just left them or if if I decided not to

[01:08:49] it was weird I was asking around can I do this and um I don't know I didn't know

[01:08:57] I did not know what to do Susan the show is definitely an eye opener and we just dropped

[01:09:03] a episode early on with David Simon and he talked about here I am a white kid from Montgomery County

[01:09:10] ends up on the police beat in Baltimore and going to places this is when he was a journalist

[01:09:16] that he would never have gone before and all the things he learned and all the voices he

[01:09:20] heard and all the lives and the way that people live that he had never you know seen before

[01:09:25] um was a huge a huge education for him and I feel that way even though of course like I'm on

[01:09:33] a film crew like I'm not a cop um but we worked it wasn't play you know when we went into those

[01:09:40] neighborhoods it wasn't fake it was like you said it was a real row it was a real row house

[01:09:46] where people were living in real poverty and um and I remember one one place we were we were

[01:09:54] working in a row house and I think we were just working upstairs and the downstairs we hadn't

[01:09:58] lit it was very dark and we went upstairs and I had to hit the slate and run into the bathroom or

[01:10:04] something and it was just not good um and somebody opened a drawer because they were

[01:10:11] trying to lighten the room or do something and a bunch and like a million cockroaches is scattered

[01:10:15] every direction and as I'm walking down the stairs I'm feeling sad but I'm also I'm

[01:10:21] walking down the stairs and I actually set out loud I can't believe people live like this

[01:10:26] and three of the kids were sitting in the living room in the dark living room

[01:10:32] and heard me say that I'm sure the white girl from the suburbs you know who comes out and then

[01:10:37] I spoke to the mother who was outside very well dressed put together wonderful working woman

[01:10:43] she's just trying to keep her life together with whatever you know poverty level wages

[01:10:48] she was getting um but it was an ed like you just said an absolute education for the crew absolutely

[01:10:55] we got to receive that level of understanding that most people on the planet will never

[01:11:05] they never will they they you can you don't you can travel within the a certain

[01:11:14] level of of what have you and I don't think um the people whose homes we went into and

[01:11:21] neighborhoods went I don't I may be wrong about this I don't think they felt exploited I think

[01:11:27] they felt seen in a way they hadn't been before because the show was not painted to look pretty

[01:11:34] it was Baltimore yeah yeah no they were sticklers for realism because if you did something that was

[01:11:43] off they'd laugh I mean when we were at that shoot somebody did something

[01:11:49] it was somebody did something with a rifle or and one of the kids just or a couple people

[01:12:00] just started cracking up like you're never gonna do that and it was like check that reality right

[01:12:06] yeah it was a you you had to do what was completely authentic and I don't I don't remember what that

[01:12:14] moment was was it from sniper or something or was it from the house I know I I'm so sorry I don't

[01:12:23] I did not mean to come unprepared but I was looking for episodes because that makes sense

[01:12:27] that makes sense that uh that kind of confront that kind of you know interaction because those

[01:12:32] first three episodes are great and then Chris and I also looked at your last couple episodes

[01:12:36] you know with the with the bow murder part and I'd love to talk to you about that because

[01:12:42] because here's you know the two you know and obviously portrayed different ways but

[01:12:47] but you and Melissa K and um and Lieutenant um what's your date your characters

[01:12:55] oh Russet you know the the two they get you get pulled off you get pulled off of

[01:13:02] you get pulled off of of of the case of when they finally figure out and bow was murdered

[01:13:08] and hadn't committed suicide you know and then Yafid says uh you know his wife doesn't ex-wife

[01:13:14] doesn't want to have anything to do with him you have to make and I love the way he said

[01:13:18] you have to make a funeral and your face when he said that was like clicking through all these

[01:13:24] like you know obviously you had you know you were had had an involvement with him an emotional

[01:13:29] connection but also I could see you're clicking you know but wait a minute I'm the Lieutenant

[01:13:33] are you doing that just because I'm a woman like why you know there's all these things swirling

[01:13:38] around but those scenes in the house with you and Melissa going to pull out what he's

[01:13:45] going to be buried in you know and you come and running in from outside because there's

[01:13:49] lightning I love the idea that they made I'm assuming we made rain that day I don't know

[01:13:55] that that was real and the lightning the lightning the lightning you know very gothic as you go into

[01:14:02] the basically the death house but those scenes because you and you and Melissa were both so

[01:14:08] emotionally connected with him her as a partner professionally and you as a romantic partner

[01:14:14] that those scenes together with you two were just absolutely terrific I loved being able to connect

[01:14:20] with her I love and I love about having you had to pull out stuff that was not cop stuff

[01:14:26] this was a whole different level of emotionality yeah well I'm trying to remember the details

[01:14:36] of it well you basically come in and it strikes you like it hits you like a ton of bricks

[01:14:42] that this is where oh yeah this is where he died this is where he yeah he died yeah you see the two

[01:14:48] scenes you got the scene where he was sat in the chair which was staged and then he got the bathroom

[01:14:52] where he was actually shot and I think that's where the scene ends is you you look in the

[01:14:56] bathroom and see the hole on the wall um and take it all in and it kind of hits you yeah

[01:15:01] yeah yeah that he didn't yeah that he wasn't the uh the I guess weak or or what is the word I'm looking

[01:15:15] for wasn't he hadn't given up he hadn't given up right was a different situation that was

[01:15:20] initially portrayed I mean I teared up watching those scenes it's really yeah really connected

[01:15:26] it they they were very connected for me as well and they and then I'm sure some music played that

[01:15:35] would just enhance what was happening and um that would make it even more so so I find myself being

[01:15:42] able to work on the show and then when you'd watch the episodes you'd start to blubber

[01:15:46] because everything just came to me together all the elements came together all of them

[01:15:52] the music always nailed it even though the scene was already nailed the music would come in I just

[01:15:58] yeah it added that extra level and also I loved that one of the very close to the end of that

[01:16:05] second episode where you show up at the junkyard and Pambleton turns to you and Melissa

[01:16:13] and says it's even though he had been the primary he said this is your collar this

[01:16:18] is the way Bo would have wanted it and so the two women detectives go in you know to catch the murderer

[01:16:25] of course he's fled already but um that there are so many good choices for your character um yeah

[01:16:34] yeah and not all made by me do you know what I mean yeah they were made by the writers so well

[01:16:40] written Chris you know when you asked me about who I enjoyed working with because I didn't have

[01:16:46] a chance to look at all the episodes and they come flooding back you know the process once you hear

[01:16:52] something or once you see something more things come back it comes in yeah um Tim Russert was I loved

[01:16:59] being able to meet my cousin right right yes great I love how they just roast stuff like that is

[01:17:06] that was another great moment um of just being able to pick his brain for for a little bit and

[01:17:13] how smart he was and there's another one that we lost um oh gosh I don't think I knew that

[01:17:21] yes gone yeah and he comes up in the have you um the stakeout episode which one of my favorite ones

[01:17:27] even though it's not a big one for your character but there's a funny little moment where the wife

[01:17:31] mentions Tim Russert and you say oh he's my cousin and then she sort of says oh that's good

[01:17:36] and then she mentioned she watches somebody else it is quite a funny little moment yeah

[01:17:41] yeah oh no I mean the other one something yeah well are there any episodes that stand out for you

[01:17:47] that there are strong memories around whether it's the storyline or whether it's a memory of doing

[01:17:52] it or is there any any particular things that still stand out the the one that is really vivid

[01:17:58] is when I first got on that show is that three episode arc um and and everything that was

[01:18:07] involved with that uh that was because it was it was like my first trip to Disneyland or something

[01:18:19] you know it was there was so much going on and so much happening and so

[01:18:27] it was it was amazing um yeah that was the complexity of the writing of those three episodes

[01:18:36] what they worked together was really wonderful was kind of my favorite and partially is because I'm

[01:18:43] trying to remember some of the other episodes I remember the one where I was working with Kathie

[01:18:48] Bates who was directing oh yes that was that one hang on um let me just sorry I'll find my

[01:18:54] notice like it's scenes of the crime which is um uh yeah you're with munch and you're

[01:18:59] investigating a shooting in the maze which is a part of complex there's the episode with

[01:19:04] Stuart Garty the patrol officer who stays in his car while this shooting happens

[01:19:08] it's a really good episode yeah it's a great yeah and then you meet Garty later on in the bow

[01:19:12] episode yeah yeah and the kids shot them I um I remember oh that was something oh and Kathie

[01:19:19] oh we were in this place I wasn't we were in it wasn't it was underground it was

[01:19:29] it was dirt and needles and all kinds of stuff um and I had to pull Kathie aside Kathie was I

[01:19:39] I was pregnant hmm at that time okay that's why I remember it and there was a scene where I had

[01:19:46] to put a I put a scarf on and it was because I said I don't think I'm supposed to be in here

[01:19:52] I'm I'm I said can can we talk about this I said no one no one knows that I'm all right we did not

[01:19:59] know that we did not know go you know who did know the prop guys the two prop guys figured it out

[01:20:06] came up to me one day when are you really brook brook was a brook and Jeff brook and Jeff

[01:20:15] brook and Jeff you have no idea can you describe brook and Jeff brook they were so cute

[01:20:23] but I knew they were adorable but they were like they were not I mean they were tattooed

[01:20:28] the bad boys right take that the good way you guys when you hear that yeah when you hear that I

[01:20:34] adored them but and lester but and before that Mike Sabo I think but yeah that's interesting so

[01:20:40] they knew that's what those two keeping their eye on you from uh right from the get go I didn't tell them

[01:20:48] Susan I I walked in and and I said I was said something and they just looked at me

[01:20:54] both of them they looked at each other and they went are you pregnant and I just

[01:20:59] and I burst into tears they went oh yeah she's pregnant wow

[01:21:07] wow it was very early on so they were the only ones but but it turned out that they could be my

[01:21:15] because I didn't know what I was going to do with that I was like I have to tell them

[01:21:19] I'm not sure how I'm going to tell them I will tell them in a eventually maybe I need to get

[01:21:24] through the first 12 weeks or whatever and then I talked to had to tell Kathy and Kathy sort of

[01:21:30] I said is it okay if I put this over my nose as if the character doesn't want to inhale this because

[01:21:36] I don't think I should be inhaling this understood so yeah yeah yeah yeah I think I remember the

[01:21:41] sequence actually because there's a scene where you're walking through a corridor and then you

[01:21:45] mentioned like the smell it really smells in here or something and and then it gives you a license

[01:21:49] to cover your face so it's probably yeah okay I think I see the scene now yeah yeah

[01:21:54] how soon was that before the end of that season because you would have then had to like

[01:21:59] go if you were pregnant right uh I don't know when was that episode Chris look in your archive

[01:22:07] give me a second I'll find it for you it's definitely towards the end of the season

[01:22:12] four um yeah episode 18 came out on 12th of April 1996 I don't know whether you shot that but

[01:22:19] but yeah it's just he's only about yeah it's about four episodes before the end of the season

[01:22:24] roughly depending on what yeah and then I just kept getting bigger

[01:22:28] the network was complaining about Andre gaining weight I was like oh no no no

[01:22:36] I got big everywhere I guess at some point we must have known then huh I guess we know yeah I

[01:22:41] think so and then you were when you've been gone for a year that's because then you had this that

[01:22:47] so was that after the because then you came back you reappeared as the you know during the bow

[01:22:52] murder after having been to France and you came back in the the French couture in the hole and

[01:22:56] your and then your hair was dark you came back not as a blonde you came back yeah as a dark

[01:23:01] dark hair it was my opportunity um to not be blonde for a while because I'm not sure I'm doing it now

[01:23:08] because it's you know because I'm older and I didn't know that because when we did real men

[01:23:12] you were blonde so I'd never seen you as a brunette which is funny because I love your return

[01:23:17] when you come out the taxi by the way such a cool little moment that's a great that's a great

[01:23:21] little scene yeah the first thing we see is your hand handing that the taxi cab driver some money

[01:23:27] one of which is the french franc so in very very sort of um shorthand you know even before you speak

[01:23:35] or before we really see you that you you're coming from France because you accidentally hand them a

[01:23:40] french franc and then you step out and you got the couture and the dark glasses and it's like wow

[01:23:45] whole different megan steps out of the cab was interesting yeah I yeah I was a whole new

[01:23:52] character for that one but it was it was so funny because I don't know whose idea it was that they

[01:23:58] wanted to go from you know always on your feet first and I I they did that in the first very

[01:24:07] first episode that I did too someone wanted they wanted I think was a genre who wanted a shot

[01:24:12] of my foot I was like dude dude you really don't I'm a dancer I can't my feet are not pretty

[01:24:20] if you're looking for a pretty feminine foot it's not mine there's a quinted tarantino joking this

[01:24:26] something anyway so did they so that was chris so when she stepped out of the cab was it on on your

[01:24:32] boots or something maybe when you got out of the cab and then up to your face some shoes and I was

[01:24:37] like oh god I just remember seeing it going man I'm gonna have to learn how to really get out

[01:24:41] of a car that is not an oscar performance that is not an award show getting out of the car kind

[01:24:52] of a moment had you been had you been to baltimore be never so that was brand new to it was my

[01:24:56] first brand new for you everything was bright told you disneyland right first time and I I loved it

[01:25:04] and I loved the fact that I loved fells point I love the cobblestone I I wish you could be there

[01:25:13] chris I wish you could have seen all of it I mean it's just it was it's old and it's I mean it's

[01:25:20] not as old as Europe but it's pretty original old you know and very original yeah I did do a

[01:25:26] google maps recently where I could go around it is a very cool area but I definitely hope in a

[01:25:31] and and the daily grind and that was actually the first stop the daily grind when you then you come in

[01:25:37] and get go to the makeup trailer but so yeah I loved it I first I was in federal hill I think that

[01:25:47] first season that's a pretty area yeah it was yeah but kind of also isolated but in but in a row

[01:25:57] house which is what I wanted to experience it was a beautiful row house but you know they're so

[01:26:02] they're like on top of one another so there's no side windows ever so the only light that you have

[01:26:08] are in the front and the back and I just found it quite quite interesting um and and then uh

[01:26:18] and then moved to owing's mills oh that's right near me

[01:26:23] uh you live a couple miles I'm in Randallstown so just about so owing's mill is about three

[01:26:29] three four miles outside the beltway you're there now yep I'm in Randallstown which is a hop

[01:26:34] skipping a jump from owing's mills yeah a mile or two but you're not from yeah originally yep

[01:26:39] originally from here and then I lived in LA for eight years that's where I met you the first

[01:26:43] time and then came back so did you live in the same neighborhood yet where yoff it bought the

[01:26:48] house over at mcdonald crossing um I because yoff it bought a house over there in owing's mills

[01:26:54] um at some point I don't know if it was just when he got married I think that was after I left after

[01:27:01] yeah yeah because yeah one thing led to another I think I think they probably would have come up

[01:27:08] with a really great storyline if I would have come back um pregnant what I was going to ask you

[01:27:14] because we were kind of leading into it and you said something off there that sparked something I mean

[01:27:18] you mentioned obviously leaving the shows on the hardest decisions you had to make and I was wondering

[01:27:23] if you wanted to talk a bit about about that because obviously there's this big gap between

[01:27:28] season four and then you coming back in season five and stuff yeah um for the one episode

[01:27:34] yeah um I was all set to come back for the next season um and to figure out how we could

[01:27:43] sort of work around that until my pregnancy or come afterwards uh Atticus my son was due in

[01:27:52] October October 17th and he decided to come out July 13th oh wow oh that's early so it was it was it

[01:28:03] was a very difficult time but I had a baby who was like the size of a minute he was the size of a

[01:28:15] cordless phone wow yeah that his his head did not even cover the palm of my hand and uh

[01:28:25] and he was sliced and diced from the get go they there was I won't even go into it but there was

[01:28:32] so much going on I'm sorry so it's okay he's he's all right now he's a giant he's okay my nickname

[01:28:40] for him now is man truck okay man truck part man part truck that's my son um and uh so I was

[01:28:54] I had a baby in the hospital and I was due to go back and I could not leave Los Angeles

[01:29:03] because of so many things going on and I wasn't about to leave him with someone else gosh no

[01:29:16] of course I couldn't and um but I did not there was so much happening and so much going on in my

[01:29:26] personal life with you know Daniel and with the baby and Atticus being born and all of this stuff

[01:29:33] that um I I had to call Tom and he was really understanding but I didn't have my head on

[01:29:41] straight I would have said could I please come back after if if all goes well can I will you

[01:29:48] still have me back in another season or another time can I just take some time off but what I

[01:29:56] said was I'm so happy that you've asked me back to the dance because I was set to come back

[01:30:04] and I said but I can't I you know I don't know when he's coming home from the hospital he

[01:30:10] turned out he's spent three months in the hospital and still came home five days before his due date

[01:30:16] so I felt like I yeah I felt like I owe people sort of an explanation as to why I suddenly

[01:30:25] disappeared it had nothing to do with that I loved doing that show so so then when you got

[01:30:31] the call for the movie was that like yay yeah I was like wow what really really I thought Tom was mad

[01:30:39] at me oh that was a great they did a great job with that I mean a lot of reunion shows suck and that

[01:30:45] was really so good that was something they fit everybody in every single person I love it I

[01:30:52] think it was Tom that said we he said I was determined to get everybody back even every

[01:30:58] character that had already died and they managed to work in the flashbacks and everything

[01:31:04] yeah so everybody was in it I really I'm gonna just follow my eyes out at the end of that because

[01:31:09] of course I mentioned this in the other episode that Jaffet had since actually died and he actually

[01:31:14] he died in the movie but then he had then actually died made it like 9000 times more poignant

[01:31:20] and now if I watch it now since Andre died I probably would cry for an hour because

[01:31:26] yeah everyone yeah this and Ned and everything yeah you know they need to bring this show back

[01:31:35] because just please have a look at the skills of these people what I mean just amazing and

[01:31:43] the cast that you came in with just amazing I mean you came in when Ned was still there

[01:31:48] you know I mean yeah crazy good crazy good yeah it was all crazy good I mean everybody had their

[01:31:57] their moments but it was just like I was just like you know it's a veritable melting pot here

[01:32:05] it's just another day at the office have you returned to Baltimore since filming at all

[01:32:10] I have not I have not I don't well and now that I know that Susan's there I might

[01:32:17] I'm here coming I'll pick you up at the airport or the train station wherever so where

[01:32:22] where so you are you in LA now where I don't I am in LA okay I'm in LA I can't I I never thought I'd

[01:32:30] I'd be in LA I always thought I'd be in New York or I'm you know I'm I'm I'm Chicago I'm real

[01:32:37] I'm like what you see is what you get this is it this is this is it aside from the you know

[01:32:43] dyed hair in the makeup whatever but I'm the Irish accent yeah and the Irish I have a random

[01:32:50] Baltimore question for you if I may oh good this one so some cast and crew have shared their

[01:32:58] favorite Baltimoreian food and drinks and we've had scrapple crab cakes and gizzards were there

[01:33:04] any like local dishes you enjoyed whilst you're in Baltimore listen Chris I had gizzards in Chicago

[01:33:11] oh okay there you go okay the notice the Baltimore thing I didn't need to have I didn't

[01:33:16] need to have gizzards in in Baltimore we used to go around right you were right there

[01:33:24] we had yeah they've chicken gizzards one of the cheap one of the cheap eats that you could get

[01:33:30] delicious um so my takeaway I lived for the blue crab cakes the Maryland blue they were amazing

[01:33:38] and there was that one what was that one restaurant it had the it was a blue blue crab oh had they

[01:33:47] would just serve you either crabs or crab cakes on a piece of paper yeah what was that restaurant

[01:33:55] infills point or out where you were infills point you mean no I think no I didn't do a lot

[01:34:01] out where I was there was like a mall and yeah that's no longer there yeah yeah well everybody

[01:34:11] every place in Baltimore serves you know they bring out the big brown roll paper and dump the

[01:34:17] one I think I just right down infills point Jimmy's I believe so blue point crab oh well there was a

[01:34:25] blue there was a blue point crap there is a blue point crab house in Owings Mills but I think it's

[01:34:30] just to carry out unless they're they have a restaurant restaurant somewhere boy I don't know

[01:34:35] see I've lost not only not only do I need to refresh my memory and look at some of those

[01:34:41] episodes if I could ever find them I need to refresh my memory about the um yeah that might

[01:34:47] have been out in Owings Mills but yeah there were a lot of places anywhere I could find a good blue

[01:34:52] crab cake but yeah crab cakes yum they're they're good they're the best because they were like no

[01:34:58] other they're like no other in in any other place you go if you got a crab cake it was all

[01:35:04] this shredded stuff here it was like this these lumps of crab I said that that's a crab cake

[01:35:12] oh Disneyland moment number three yeah I remember I think the first or second time

[01:35:18] I was in San Francisco and what was on Fisherman's Wharf and I went to get something for lunch

[01:35:22] and I'm looked at the menu I'm like I mean I'm on the water right well I like looked at the waitress

[01:35:28] I'm like where do you have crab cakes and she said what we have cod cakes no they had never

[01:35:37] heard of crab cakes they had those weird stone crabs or whatever I don't know I think they

[01:35:41] stew out of them or something but yeah that's when I realized they weren't everywhere and they're

[01:35:46] not everywhere no they're not everywhere just like lobsters with claws are not everywhere lobster

[01:35:51] they don't get lobster with not a lot I don't either I'm not either but I remember I think

[01:35:56] who was it Daniel tried to order lobster uh in Los Angeles or something in there and there was um

[01:36:04] he's like where's the claw yeah where's some good right the claws got the best meat in it right

[01:36:10] yeah so funny and the places you go there there are um what do you call them the kind the kind of

[01:36:18] restaurants where they have them everywhere chain restaurants here that's like their crab they say

[01:36:22] they're crab restaurants and you go in and they don't have blue crabs they have Alaskan those

[01:36:27] gigantic spider things whatever those are yeah let's let's let's no no Maryland blue crab

[01:36:33] you can't be the boastful crab yeah you can't be yeah you can't yeah that's my favorite that was

[01:36:40] my favorite good memory so cool so I guess that one of the other questions we ask everybody is

[01:36:45] and maybe we we talked about it in the in the whole idea of the way we shot it in the way it

[01:36:50] was written and all that but why why do you think it has retained interest 30 years later

[01:36:57] um it has a still has a very strong fan base but why do you think it's still it feels very relevant

[01:37:04] when you watch episodes now it still feels very relevant it's very relevant because it's

[01:37:10] you watch the show on a from a human level number one but have you seen the news lately um

[01:37:18] it need it's it's still relevant unfortunately and relevant again because people are so

[01:37:27] angry everywhere um and it's not the anger it's the result of the anger that i'm talking about

[01:37:34] it's the violence that people don't know what to do with their frustration and and because of the

[01:37:39] economy and all this other stuff I mean you could bring in all all of it but uh

[01:37:45] but the show itself in my opinion is uniquely its own there hasn't been anything like it before or

[01:37:56] since I mean NYPD blue tried to do the like shaking of the dolly track or something but that was not

[01:38:02] it was not the same you did not have the same kind of writing you did not have the same it's

[01:38:08] not any it's not like any other cop show and because the stories are about men women children

[01:38:17] animals events life events it is relatable it's relatable to everybody and it's relatable on

[01:38:30] a realistic level let's not you know it's not polished and it's not social media savvy

[01:38:37] and it's not like here's my makeup where's your face you know kind of a thing it is

[01:38:45] you know with whom you're having the pleasure let me put it that way

[01:38:51] and that's my favorite quote you always know with whom you're having the pleasure on that show

[01:38:57] and it's important for people to be able to look at it because you'll be able to relate to

[01:39:04] these people no matter who you are there's going to be someone there and there's going to be

[01:39:08] an instance where you can relate to it and doing research and preparing for this I was thinking about

[01:39:16] the time period not many women cops and here was a show that had some very serious women police

[01:39:21] on it and even at the time probably not two women homicide detectives in Baltimore but on

[01:39:29] show there were and then thinking I don't know you know maybe things have changed since then and

[01:39:35] but then I see these headlines today about the blowback to the Secret Service agents that were

[01:39:41] protecting Trump and that um and that so here we are still 30 years later people criticizing

[01:39:48] women police officers and I remember the time watching that and I wasn't thinking oh god

[01:39:53] there's women there I was thinking oh cool there's women there's women there um and obviously it didn't

[01:39:59] occur to me that that would strike other people as wrong like it was wrong that there were women

[01:40:03] Secret Service agents so so how much have you know it's still relevant because those issues still

[01:40:09] exist and not a little bit they still exist in a large way they exist in a in a very large way

[01:40:16] um I you know no one ever complained about watching the show and having women cops on there nobody

[01:40:23] ever did that they they accepted it they accepted it but yet everywhere else it's just not it um

[01:40:32] so yeah relevancy I think so I think we have to address the same issues so much has not changed

[01:40:41] Susan so much or it has come back we thought we were making progress but apparently we took

[01:40:47] a couple steps forward and then four and a half back mm-hmm that's where I feel like we are we're

[01:40:54] you know technology has come a long way cameras are smaller blah blah blah that's about it

[01:41:03] but we need it we need the show back it's just let's have a little dose of reality if if you will

[01:41:13] but let's have a a dose of um a mirror being put up in front of us because that is the only way

[01:41:22] that we can get things to move forward is to just just see just like we would walk into

[01:41:29] the row houses or we would walk into places or we would see things that and and be amongst people that

[01:41:36] were struggling you know more than we were and had wonderful conversations and had

[01:41:43] welcomed in we need to be able to see one another yeah period just from a human standpoint

[01:41:52] and all those things were addressed straightforwardly they were addressed yeah you didn't honestly and

[01:41:58] straightforwardly in the show I think with all of your quirks and all your prejudices and all your

[01:42:04] whatever's this was who this person was so there is there's there's a moment for everyone

[01:42:11] to be able to look at and relate to and I'm not just saying oh watch this so you can

[01:42:17] self reflect no it's also just a damn good show did you talk about the fact that the

[01:42:23] original scripts were based on actual actual murders oh the best source material in the world

[01:42:33] that book David's book yeah you can listen to his episode we just dropped it today so you can

[01:42:38] listen to him talk about that okay yeah can't wait let me talk about source material amazing

[01:42:43] yeah some of the later episodes as well the writers were like watching looking for new stories

[01:42:48] that they could kind of work into it yeah yeah and and Tom said that we up as he said he thinks

[01:42:53] up until maybe what did he say Chris maybe season five they squeezed every story out of that every

[01:42:59] heat literally every line period everything out of the book yeah and then they had created

[01:43:06] the world so well that then I think David commented in in this new episode that

[01:43:12] even when it was stories that were not from the book that the world had been so well created

[01:43:17] that those stories rang true obviously it's fiction but rang true in the sense of the world

[01:43:23] that had been created influenced by and real stories some some were surreal didn't we actually

[01:43:31] shoot in some of the places where the murders actually took place oh that's a good question

[01:43:35] that's a good that would have been a good question for David that um I don't know we

[01:43:40] certainly shot in real places in places where they had to be cleaned out and that I have that

[01:43:47] recollection wow that this was the place where this happened

[01:43:53] well we have to research but then again I can't yeah I'm not I'm not sure I mean we certainly

[01:43:58] brushed I mean I remember specifically you know clearing out a drug corner and then shooting

[01:44:04] there that night and the real dealer's not happy the neighborhood yeah it was that was the most

[01:44:11] tense night that we ever spent so that was a real location I don't know if it was a

[01:44:15] murder location but it was a real it was a real working drug corner and we were shooting there at

[01:44:20] a night when they they wanted to be in business they didn't want to be re-usurped by our presence

[01:44:27] yeah well you couldn't pay them enough money even if you were to pay for the location

[01:44:31] because they'd be making way more they're making a lot more than I was that's for sure

[01:44:36] yeah but anyway okay but we're still here to live to tell the tale

[01:44:45] yeah well uh well final things then really um is there anything that you have been working on

[01:44:52] since or um or working on now that you'd like to talk about at all on here um I'm getting ready

[01:45:01] a co-founder of Herkle Dirkle Productions okay Herkle Dirkle I saw that online somewhere yeah Herkle

[01:45:10] Dirkle is a Scottish term you know sort of like not an Irish term if you're Irish ancestry

[01:45:17] maybe you're so European yeah and what's that what it what yeah it's it's sort of like when you're

[01:45:23] you can kind of lying in bed and you know and you're just not really doing anything

[01:45:27] and then some of your best ideas kind of come when when you're lying in bed so we um we developed

[01:45:35] a part of a group that that happened to come together during COVID of writers and directors

[01:45:40] and actors and things like that and we're we now have a script and we're going to be shooting

[01:45:48] our first production in uh in Columbus because we have people from everywhere

[01:45:54] oh wow we're going to be shooting our first production in Columbus Ohio

[01:45:57] can you mention even a working title yes the working title is my mother the madam

[01:46:04] there's a loaded title for you yeah wow I love it oh that's great well good luck with

[01:46:10] Herkle Dirkle Productions that sounds brilliant yeah please keep in touch oh I will I will

[01:46:15] and lastly was there anything you did want to say now about you being an autism

[01:46:19] advocate and things or anything you want to talk about that or oh well for those of you who

[01:46:25] don't know my son Atticus is autistic he's an autistic young adult and they're for those parents who are

[01:46:35] I guess I I don't know about struggling can I say the one thing that I wanted to say about that

[01:46:40] I said listen I just want to address all the parents I know I know it's a hard road

[01:46:47] but here's the funny thing as much as you don't necessarily ever think of yourself as

[01:46:54] wanting to join this club as soon as I became a member of the club well into becoming a member

[01:47:03] of the club I realized this was a club that I'm really happy that I'm a member of the

[01:47:10] my son's support and and the people that he is with his friends are so refreshingly

[01:47:20] honest and I'm not talking about flat honest they are amazing groups of people and the parents

[01:47:27] are amazing groups of people and together we offer the scaffolding and there are so many

[01:47:34] organizations I highly recommend that they go to any of the organizations if you're in Los Angeles

[01:47:41] contact the Ed Aser family center contact my son works out of this studio sometimes

[01:47:50] spectrum laboratories where all artists are on the spectrum so they do film and yeah

[01:47:57] I you know and I found so when your children are old enough up until that time

[01:48:06] go through a self-determination process if you have that find the regional center get diagnosed

[01:48:13] there are a lot of organizations out there become a part of that group there's so many

[01:48:19] ways to be able to navigate this whole situation with joy and alongside of your child who as we all

[01:48:30] know it takes a lot to be able to get alongside of it it's a puzzle it's it's a puzzle and

[01:48:38] those are some a couple of the organizations in Los Angeles that I wanted to address there's

[01:48:44] so many thank you yeah thank you okay thank you thank you so much yeah thank you Isabella it's been

[01:48:50] wonderful chatting with you today and thank you for joining us on the terrific thanks for having me

[01:49:14] so that was Isabella Hoffman that was a really really great interview and thank you again Isabella

[01:49:19] for joining us on the show and yeah I thoroughly enjoyed that I particularly enjoyed her

[01:49:26] descriptions of her improv background from Chicago I've done a little bit of improv it's

[01:49:32] not easy I'm not particularly great improviser but it's certainly good training I think for an actor

[01:49:38] to be able to kind of just kind of go with the flow and and respond to what's thrown at you rather

[01:49:45] than being too rigid and stuck to what you're expecting so yeah that was really interesting

[01:49:50] Susan I don't know if you had any kind of key thoughts you wanted to chat about yeah and I

[01:49:55] found that really interesting too I did not know she had that background and which certainly

[01:50:02] the way she talked about it you know in this episode how that really worked for her with homicide

[01:50:10] because of the sort of having to think on your feet I worked with a bunch of second city people

[01:50:16] on a movie a Tom Hanks movie called Nothing in Common and all of his office mates in the

[01:50:22] advertising world he lived he worked in were all second city people including Dan

[01:50:28] Gaslanada the voice of Homer Simpson yeah so so I didn't know that she had also had also come

[01:50:35] from second city that was neat yeah and what you mentioned in the intro which she elaborated on

[01:50:40] I really really enjoyed her insights about the woman working in a man's world in both levels

[01:50:47] and as her character and on the set because it was it was a very heavy you know it was

[01:50:55] a bunch of guys and so was the crew you know and you know even though I mentioned at the beginning

[01:51:01] you know having this and I'm pretty sure it was Melissa who said who looked at me at one point

[01:51:06] was like thanks for being there you know obviously there were other women on the show wardrobe there

[01:51:11] were other women on the show but once the camera starts rolling I'm the only one and then once

[01:51:15] the lighting and everything set up and we're doing it takes in between unless somebody has to

[01:51:21] rush in to do a wardrobe fix I was you know the only woman in facing them and so I don't want that to

[01:51:29] sound egotistical but it what there was a connection there I think and it was interesting as she

[01:51:36] elaborated on how that was working through that both as the character and you know and on the

[01:51:44] set in real life because what a bunch of you know that's a lot that's a lot of big personalities

[01:51:52] on that show and she is really held her own having to deal with the male personalities but then

[01:52:01] then the layers of sexism and racism and all those other isms that she had to deal with in

[01:52:08] addition to just trying to function in that world to begin with whether you were a male or not

[01:52:14] because they're all bumping up it you know against each other and there's a female

[01:52:18] and she has the all these other layers she has to deal with so that was I really found that

[01:52:24] interesting how she talked about it but also how beautifully written the character was yeah

[01:52:29] yeah indeed indeed well I found her description of her approach to confrontations quite interesting

[01:52:35] because is that seen in in those early three episodes it might be the second episode of

[01:52:40] those three episodes where basically she confronts Gaffney for his poor decision making and his bad

[01:52:48] attitude and basically demotes him to another unit and and Gaffney's all very loud and shouting but

[01:52:56] she just lowers her voice it's a bit like what Edward James almost did on Miami Vice which I

[01:53:01] mentioned Miami Vice and our coffee room chats but Edward James almost used to purposely lower

[01:53:05] his voice and look away from people and it suddenly it brings an intensity to the character and so you

[01:53:14] do end up having to pay attention to them it's quite interesting so it's a bit like it's always the

[01:53:18] opposite to what yeah Fat Cota would do where we'd have to walk off somewhere to encourage the

[01:53:23] camera to follow him it's sort of the opposite way by doing it with sound it's quite interesting

[01:53:27] so yeah yeah and I was well I watch a lot of movies and a lot of television obviously

[01:53:33] um and something I was watching recently and I was thinking what that scene would have looked like

[01:53:40] if the person instead of exploding had pulled it down like she did pulled it down into that

[01:53:47] intense sort of now you're listening to me you just pick where you want to go because you're

[01:53:53] going and she said something like that to him yeah that's pretty much what she said yeah and I

[01:53:57] think the next time we see him I think the next time we see him is in fire part of

[01:54:02] he's in the missing persons division he's down there and missing persons and he's trying to hold his

[01:54:08] own with Pendleton and Bayless who are saying um you know we need some information he's like come

[01:54:13] back in 24 hours he's they're trying to just trying to be the hard ass and trying to assert

[01:54:19] his his authority in the missing persons division which was interesting but yeah she um

[01:54:24] she did an amazing job with that and also the all the layers she had to do not just as a detective

[01:54:30] also also the layers she had to do as a police officer detective lieutenant captain but also as

[01:54:36] a woman having to show the soft side with the relationship with bow and then and also this

[01:54:43] this you know the sort of tragic soft side um when he gets killed sorry spoiler alert for

[01:54:49] people who haven't watched it yet um and then also going home to the daughter um and having to be a

[01:54:56] mother and it's hard enough I'm not a mother but it's hard enough for women to be mothers and have

[01:55:02] careers but I cannot imagine being a homicide detective and being a mother and having that world

[01:55:08] in your head yeah and having to go home and and and be present you know with a daughter

[01:55:15] and what's important in her world when you're coming from this world of death so so it just I

[01:55:21] really loved her talking about all those different layers and and how I think as an actor and I'm

[01:55:26] not an actor so I can't say this from my point of view but but as an actor how those kinds of

[01:55:32] different levels make the and challenges make it much more interesting and fun as an actor

[01:55:39] when you have those kinds when you have that kind of depth which I think you know is true of the show

[01:55:46] as a whole with almost all the characters all the main characters get that kind of depth

[01:55:52] which also makes it worthwhile watching indeed yeah yeah the other interesting thing and it's come out

[01:56:00] with other actors too is there is Isabella's respect for Jean the director of photography

[01:56:06] and she described in both as a yoga master and Yoda right exactly what you call the Yoda the

[01:56:13] Yoda master right yes the Yoda master yeah that should be a show in itself but yeah I really yeah

[01:56:20] and and how he you know worked with the camera and the freedom it gave gave her to then concentrate

[01:56:27] on and the other actors to concentrate on their performances the whole sort of visual approach

[01:56:30] to homicide which is sort of very unique to this show and as she says hasn't really

[01:56:37] yeah no one's ever really managed to capture capture capture anything similar people captured

[01:56:42] like handheld and other things but nobody's ever done it quite the way homicide did it

[01:56:47] and homicide sort of turned it into an art in itself so yeah yeah and I think a lot of that

[01:56:53] is like when you work in traditional filmmaking the camera man or woman cinematographer can

[01:56:59] disappear if it's if they're set shots or very orchestrated dolly shots where it's a very separate

[01:57:08] from the action so we're I'm capturing the action but I'm not in the action and in homicide

[01:57:14] not only was the camera in the action you know the original concept which you know we really do

[01:57:20] have to get some first season people on including hopefully Wayne Wayne Ewing to talk about the

[01:57:27] the original concept not just of the camera moving with the characters but being a character

[01:57:34] being in the scene as another presence in the scene so then what happens is then the actors

[01:57:41] have to interact with that camera as another character almost and even in it was interesting in

[01:57:48] was it the gas man one of the last couple ones I've watched there's a scene in the box

[01:57:55] where where pambleton and I think also also Bolander are speaking directly to the camera so at that

[01:58:08] point the camera is the point of view of the person they're they're interviewing and but they go in

[01:58:15] and out of it and then you know he'd pull back and it would be sort of the regular interaction

[01:58:18] and go back in directly across from André and have André speaking not around the camera

[01:58:25] or eye lines you know matching whatever the character's eye line was but directly at the character so

[01:58:31] it's you're looking through the lens at you and in that case the camera was the other person so

[01:58:41] that kind of interaction I think she she it was really interesting the way she spoke about

[01:58:48] having to interact with the character and how interesting that was and how that has not

[01:58:52] been duplicated because I think we crossed so many lines of people still don't want to cross

[01:58:57] in some in some levels but it worked somehow it worked the way the way it was done and and

[01:59:04] I also liked how she talked about the style you know we go on and on talking about Jean's

[01:59:11] smooth camera work and people tend to say oh the first season was too shaky blah blah

[01:59:16] well first of all two different people but also Wayne was originally approached because of

[01:59:21] his style and because Barry wanted that sort of the cinemaverte French new wave kind of thing

[01:59:30] you know Jules and Jim French new wave look which was absolutely if you watch Jules and Jim

[01:59:36] it's like the cameras running down the street with them and bouncing all over the place so

[01:59:41] there was there was a specific directive for them on the first season to make it look

[01:59:46] like that and to not have a lot of lighting and to move really quickly so so we shouldn't say

[01:59:52] we shouldn't talk about the first season as if it not being as good as the second season

[01:59:56] first season looks fantastic it's just different and also was different because that was the way

[02:00:02] he was asked to shoot the show yeah I just want to make that clear well and he came up

[02:00:07] he did a demo so I've been on Wayne's website now if you go on Wayne's website there's

[02:00:12] interesting demo I need to go watch that yeah it's a really interesting demo from the set of toys

[02:00:17] I believe it is where you've got Clark Johnson and Daniel Baldwin and doing a scene and it's

[02:00:23] in a it's in the supposed to be in a car park and they're literally just walking around the car

[02:00:27] chatting to each other and come to a stop and it was a demonstration of how this look

[02:00:33] is used with the editing and it's really interesting and yeah as you're saying it's

[02:00:38] by but French new wave because Wayne talks about that I think the cinematographer who kind of developed

[02:00:44] that original style is a man named Raoul Coutillard who's a french cinematographer and I think they

[02:00:49] used art on cameras as well which are french cameras which you guys use on homicide the

[02:00:54] french cameras you know the artons a beautiful camera um and uh yeah so so those are really

[02:00:59] interesting sort of art too and I think the first season looked great actually the first

[02:01:02] season when rewatching it on on peacock looked better than I remembered it and in fact the only

[02:01:08] episode that on the rewatch have done so far looks a bit fun slightly funky was the pilot episode

[02:01:13] because I still think they were pulling it from um they weren't managing to pull it from its

[02:01:18] original source somehow it looks still a bit um there's definitely grain you can see grain in

[02:01:24] the first episode which you don't see there is no grain anywhere anywhere I know it's

[02:01:30] disappeared after that for good or bad it's all beautiful after that yeah yeah but so it looked

[02:01:35] like a movie I was like this I did not in a bad way I was just thinking god this actually reminds me

[02:01:40] of watching you know independent cinema in the 90s shot and film it had that look and in a good

[02:01:46] way you know and it was quite refreshing and I think you know Wayne pioneered this thing and

[02:01:51] John was hired because of the um film laws of gravity that just took it one step further and

[02:01:56] I think the only brief was to do um well I don't know it's still very jump cutty but it's um jump

[02:02:04] cut in a slightly different way it's um yeah how do I describe that it's just it is a little bit

[02:02:10] different but it's exactly the same sort of principle as well and John just took it one

[02:02:13] step further and I remember John when we interviewed him talked about somebody early episodes he did

[02:02:17] a lot more um scenes where it's just all in one shot which obviously he got told off about

[02:02:22] and they had to film it a few different ways so then they could edit it and cut down because the main

[02:02:27] main complaint for homicide from an editing point of view was that they needed to be able to cut

[02:02:32] down dialogue for time for running time um so that's why they had to you know be able to edit

[02:02:37] the footage whilst if you do it on a one or you can't really unless you use jump cuts you

[02:02:41] can't cut lines out and then jump cuts can be ugly or attractive depending on how much time

[02:02:48] and space is shifted so if the camera you know if you shift a little bit a jump cut's not too bad

[02:02:54] but if you shift like two you know you cut out two minutes of dialogue and now people the other side

[02:02:58] the room that can be quite jarring so it's sort of like I feel the jump cuts punctuate a point in

[02:03:04] the show like they repeat they're usually a dramatic there's a dramatic point point not all the time

[02:03:09] though yeah and they're repeating a line because obviously a lot of times when they're driving

[02:03:13] in the car yeah and they're having one of their philosophical discussions and it's like jump jump

[02:03:18] jump all the way down the street but it's not disturbing because they're both still in the same

[02:03:24] place you know they're both still in the front seat yes and it creates an energy it gives it

[02:03:29] action because this is the other thing with cinema there's a and it's more like Barry

[02:03:33] Levison stuff actually because for Barry Levison as a director a lot of it's about the art of

[02:03:38] conversation and a lot of cinema you talk show not tell and it and and he and Richard Linklase

[02:03:43] are quite interesting directors because their films are very dialogue heavy when traditionally

[02:03:48] you're told not to be too dialogue heavy and there's always this conflict of having

[02:03:53] films or TV shows that are too quote unquote talky especially in today's environment so the

[02:03:58] only way to kind of counterbalance that is with really stunning visuals or real

[02:04:03] energetic editing and so homicide's got energetic editing with really exciting visuals then a show

[02:04:10] like better cool source is a spin-off from from Breaking Bad had much more static but composed

[02:04:17] shots that are almost photographic and like a painting as he watched it for a period of time

[02:04:23] and so yeah it's very interesting sort of these different styles that help

[02:04:28] help shows that are quite talky so yeah and I'm quite talky too yeah and maybe I think you

[02:04:33] and I have talked about it off air maybe we can get maybe we can we can find somebody who was

[02:04:40] involved in the process uh and talk about you know what they did in in the transfer and in in the

[02:04:48] new in you know in the reboot I think that would be cool to see to get into somebody you know

[02:04:53] get to get into that and then also you know maybe talk to a couple editors yeah it would be

[02:04:58] fascinating which I think would also be really cool to get into the editing room and what did they

[02:05:03] you know what did they want to see and and and did they like you said that do they want more

[02:05:08] pieces or do they want more that you know they don't want wonters they want more pieces so

[02:05:14] you know and how that you know how that worked out with with with the styles and and the way

[02:05:19] the way things come together on the set and then what you want when it gets to the editing room I

[02:05:24] think all that would be really fascinating um back to Isabella I wanted to mention one of the other

[02:05:31] things that was really interesting is when she moved up to captain and um she obviously jumps over G

[02:05:40] becomes his boss and that and that sort of that really sparks up in um

[02:05:47] was at the end of season three beginning of season four in any case there for you know their first

[02:05:53] confrontation where they're trying to still remain you know amiable with each other and and her having

[02:05:59] to juggle this like you know here I am again once again once again you know she's a woman now she's

[02:06:04] in a position of power over somebody that's really powerful I mean you can't argue with the

[02:06:09] fact that that um Yafid's portrayal of Gia Della was like is he is just like power unleashed you know

[02:06:17] sometimes he's just and then having to having to juggle that with her friendship with him and her

[02:06:23] respect for him and all that um so I thought that was great and I didn't want to talk about

[02:06:28] she mentioned the how Jean managed to go down there you know our main staircase with the

[02:06:34] actors and in fire part one is the scene where she's arguing with a barn father about being understaffed

[02:06:41] and they're coming down the steps but the camera's in front of them so the camera's coming down the

[02:06:47] steps backwards and I know I have obviously we had the sedan chair which was the two speed

[02:06:55] rails with the chair on it um but I also remember um either Joe or the dolly grip Rodney

[02:07:03] French who when you don't have a dolly on the show what does the dolly grip do the dolly grip

[02:07:06] grabs the back of the cameraman's pants at you know at the waist and if you're going up the stairs

[02:07:12] you're helping him navigate back walking backward and which Jean did I have no idea how he did this

[02:07:18] walking backwards up the stairs but this scene with barn father and Russert is coming down the

[02:07:24] stairs with the camera in front and if you watch it there's a couple different set a couple

[02:07:29] different camera setups some of his is I think some of it's with the sedan chair so then so then

[02:07:36] the grips have the speed rail and him sitting on the chair walking backwards down the steps

[02:07:43] I don't know and and I don't remember if part of that also was Jean without the sedan chair

[02:07:49] Jean just walking backwards and being guided as he went down and then there's also a setup

[02:07:55] at the bottom of the stairs where the where it's just Jean sort of static not static but obviously

[02:08:01] not on the moving platform but she talked about that and the wonder of watching him being able to

[02:08:08] do those things but if that scene is really interesting to watch because I was there and

[02:08:13] I can't even remember how they did it so I might have to go back to the call Josh and Joe

[02:08:18] or maybe we can get Rodney on this on the he's a real character get Rodney on the show

[02:08:23] and ask him how he dealt how we dealt with in situations where Jean needed to be guided where

[02:08:28] he was blind walking backwards down the steps you know how they worked that out yeah massive

[02:08:36] health and safety hazard that it's not easy yeah yeah and they do it very well I'd love is already

[02:08:41] photographs of this sedan chair anywhere because I'd love to see one if there is that's a good

[02:08:46] question yeah in reconnecting with people I'm seeing a lot of photos I haven't seen before

[02:08:53] but my guess is yes because that was such a unique element you know I would I would guess

[02:08:59] that somebody popped off some shots shots of that so I could ask Josh and Joe if they if

[02:09:05] they have any that would be that would be fun to have and skipping skipping outside the technical

[02:09:12] realm I also loved she started talking about her you know we talked about her wardrobe and how they

[02:09:18] had to sort of balance she's got to be professional yeah you know she can't look slubby but also the

[02:09:24] contrast between her and Melissa's character between her and Kay Howard who was very all business no

[02:09:30] makeup in the suits and I think that helped underline the tension between the two of them

[02:09:37] as well because they presented so differently although they were both very obviously very capable

[02:09:43] and very authoritative um and had to hold their own in that job so I love that she brought in

[02:09:50] and talked about the wardrobe and also not just talked about it but she also talked about how

[02:09:54] beautiful the clothes were and we've never mentioned that with the men that we've the men

[02:09:58] actors we've we've interviewed um but the wardrobe became very unique to each character that you

[02:10:05] know they were they were defined in part so kudos to the wardrobe department also for for their work

[02:10:11] which sometimes becomes invisible they did a great they did a great job too I love that she

[02:10:18] mentioned crab cakes that that's you know that's that's that's usually it you know a top of the

[02:10:22] list for people for people in Baltimore I think Reed liked the crab cakes too yeah yeah but it

[02:10:27] was it was nice that she mentioned that instead of you know some of the other other things we've

[02:10:32] talked about in the past and I think I think in in Fire Part One I believe is is where they find

[02:10:39] the I believe I think this is my memory is the the liquor slash convenience store where they find

[02:10:46] the gasoline can in Fire Part One where Pemberton finds a gasoline can in the dumpster I think

[02:10:51] that's where that's my memory of gizzards my memory of the gizzards I think was that

[02:10:57] store but I may be wrong brilliant oh I've tried to recreate that yeah yeah cool but anyway excellent

[02:11:04] I think it was a really interesting interview and thank you again to Isabella for joining us and

[02:11:08] really enjoyed her her recollections of being on the show and talk about experiences and it was

[02:11:14] just an honor to speak to I think her character is such a powerful and interesting character

[02:11:20] and actually my only regret now is I remember um it's one aspect of her character from naval

[02:11:24] intelligence and I completely forgot to ask Isabella about this sort of backstory because her

[02:11:29] character had quite a elaborate backstory and I forgot to kind of ask her a bit about that so maybe

[02:11:34] you'll get a chance again in the near future to chat with her about that but uh but yeah yeah and

[02:11:39] and I also appreciated her um you know we talked ahead of time about whether she wanted to mention

[02:11:44] her autism advocacy and I really appreciated yeah I have some friends who have children

[02:11:49] with autism and and know how difficult it was for them to try to get the right resources and she's

[02:11:55] like constant constant constant trying to get the correct resources and um and and I love that she

[02:12:02] that she you know was happy to talk about that and talked about people don't wish to be a part

[02:12:07] of that club but she said she is she's so happy that she's in the club now because Atticus is

[02:12:14] is such a great uh it's such a great well I can't say kid now because he's all grown up

[02:12:18] it was lovely for her for her to to offer that for us and and to speak to people about that too

[02:12:24] yeah terrific interview yeah cool well thank you Susan for your time on this and sure don't forget

[02:12:30] you can follow us on social media we're just at homicide pod on twitter instagram and threads

[02:12:36] and thank you everybody for listening and join us on the next episode